Mass Shooting thread

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I don't know if it's good or bad-where a person can kill another just because s/he is waving with a gun and threating.

Here in Denmark and Sweden you are allowed to neutralize a criminal so he no longer is a threat to you..This doesn't mean you are allowed to kill him. Well this has to be last thing.

Those times it have happened-The criminal had been neutralized but not killed and the police came and arrested the criminal.

I guess the owner had to kill the robber,'cause there wasn't any other way.

Markus

It's a bad thing (the rule of law is on hiatus) and the blame can be placed at the feet of "liberal policies", this kind of thing is what happens when you "defund" the police and have prosecutors that won't put criminals in jail. People realize that nobody is going to help them, so they take matters into their own hands. expect to see more of the same as crime rates rise, and prosecution rates fall.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by MaDef

It's a bad thing (the rule of law is on hiatus) and the blame can be placed at the feet of "liberal policies", this kind of thing is what happens when you "defund" the police and have prosecutors that won't put criminals in jail. People realize that nobody is going to help them, so they take matters into their own hands. expect to see more of the same as crime rates rise, and prosecution rates fall.

I believe precedent was established by the U.S. Supreme Court which says cops do not have a duty to protect you, or anyone.

[August]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I believe precedent was established by the U.S. Supreme Court which says cops do not have a duty to protect you, or anyone.

That is correct. Regardless of what it says on the sides of LAPD cruisers the Cops exist only to apprehend those who have violated the laws of the state.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I believe precedent was established by the U.S. Supreme Court which says cops do not have a duty to protect you, or anyone.

I didn't say that, or even intimate that idea. The Supreme court has ruled on various occasions that the police have no constitutional mandate to protect individuals (except when they are in custody). However it is clear that they are in place to protect society at large, and they do this in the following manner:

The duties of the police are to deter crimes through visible patrols, investigate crimes, collect evidence and to arrest those who commit crimes and aid in the prosecution of those persons.

Anyone with 1/2 a brain can see the correlation between fewer police + fewer prosecutions = more crime & criminals. and that results in more people fed up with the job the criminal justice system is doing.

You cant remove the fence around your cornfield and expect the cattle in the next pasture to stay out of it.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by MaDef

I didn't say that, or even intimate that idea. The Supreme court has ruled on various occasions that the police have no constitutional mandate to protect individuals (except when they are in custody). However it is clear that they are in place to protect society at large, and they do this in the following manner:

The duties of the police are to deter crimes through visible patrols, investigate crimes, collect evidence and to arrest those who commit crimes and aid in the prosecution of those persons.

Anyone with 1/2 a brain can see the correlation between fewer police + fewer prosecutions = more crime & criminals. and that results in more people fed up with the job the criminal justice system is doing.

You cant remove the fence around your cornfield and expect the cattle in the next pasture to stay out of it.

Oh I understand the correlation completely. I only mentioned it because I think it’s one more reason for law abiding citizens to own and carry a firearm.

[August]

Besides when seconds count cops are minutes away (at best).

[Gorpet]

Well here in Florida, We will now be able to carry right on our legs open. Just like Gunsmoke ole Matt Dillon.Hell ya.Ya see we have gang problem's hell just the other day a 12 year old shot somebody in the face.Murder straight up. If you go to the 7-eleven after dark.You can become dead. And this happens all the time within Orlando fl. If you get lost and are on country roads. And if your a tourist you better have your will made out before you get here. If a child shoot's you in the head, They will not be prosecuted. So come to Disney World bring your family and your money.Only 4 out of 15 have a bad experience. And english is not the language you may expect to hear.We are multicultural and some of them get violent if you can't speak their language.What the hell take a chance come to America while you can. Hell by the end of this summer we may look into the night sky and see beautiful rolling colours that look from a distance like the mushrooms i just consumed, because there's no beef or chickens or fish and chips left. Goddamnit if only my parents were movie stars or politicians.Life would be so good, only the piss ants will have to boot up and march forward for Democracy and wokeism the new religion, And die. After all that's how all the ruling families have stayed in power. WAR that's how they have done it for Decades.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by August

Besides when seconds count cops are minutes away (at best).

...the average PD response time is 6 minutes at best-from my '73-'75 experience as graveshift Wells Fargo Alarm Svc. central station monitor, occasional dispatcher, and armed-guard responder.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

...the average PD response time is 6 minutes at best-from my '73-'75 experience as graveshift Wells Fargo Alarm Svc. central station monitor, occasional dispatcher, and armed-guard responder.

well anymore, average response times depend on where you live, it ranges from about 5 min (Nashville Tn.) to 20 min (Los Angeles Ca.).

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by August

That is correct. Regardless of what it says on the sides of LAPD cruisers the Cops exist only to apprehend those who have violated the laws of the state.

Well, that in a sense is protecting and serving.

Originally Posted by Gorpet

Well here in Florida, We will now be able to carry right on our legs open. Just like Gunsmoke ole Matt Dillon.Hell ya.

Sure, you go right ahead and open carry, please, I love having you as the first target when a criminal decides to rob the IHOP we having breakfast in.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Sure, you go right ahead and open carry, please, I love having you as the first target when a criminal decides to rob the IHOP we having breakfast in.

I find that attitude a bit counter-intuitive, I can't speak to other State's laws, but in Utah, open carry just means that you can carry a weapon in public (visible or concealed) without needing a permit. They still have a concealed carry permit system, but that is for the benefit of Reciprocity Laws for when Utah citizens travel to other states and wish to carry a weapon. So if I'm a bad guy robbing your Ihop, and see 1 or 2 pistols on some ones hip, I have to wonder how many are carrying pistols that I can't see.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by MaDef

I find that attitude a bit counter-intuitive, I can't speak to other State's laws, but in Utah, open carry just means that you can carry a weapon in public (visible or concealed) without needing a permit. They still have a concealed carry permit system, but that is for the benefit of Reciprocity Laws for when Utah citizens travel to other states and wish to carry a weapon. So if I'm a bad guy robbing your Ihop, and see 1 or 2 pistols on some ones hip, I have to wonder how many are carrying pistols that I can't see.

An interesting psychological approach.

A bad guy goes into a bar, where he look around and see at least two men with guns(open carry) he pull his gun from his belt and shot these two person first, then he looked around and see how people try to escape the crime scene. He start to fire his gun on people here and there, while they try to escape.

There are additional 3 more who carry gun openly-
Will they try to escape-Fear ?
Or
Would they take a stand and neutralize the perpetrator ?

Even though a person has the right to carry a gun openly in his or her state-Isn't the same as they wouldn't go into panic when someone starts to shoot wildly.

This is what some forget-the Psychological aspect of it.

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

An interesting psychological approach.

A bad guy goes into a bar, where he look around and see at least two men with guns(open carry) he pull his gun from his belt and shot these two person first, then he looked around and see how people try to escape the crime scene. He start to fire his gun on people here and there, while they try to escape.

There are additional 3 more who carry gun openly-
Will they try to escape-Fear ?
Or
Would they take a stand and neutralize the perpetrator ?

Even though a person has the right to carry a gun openly in his or her state-Isn't the same as they wouldn't go into panic when someone starts to shoot wildly.

This is what some forget-the Psychological aspect of it.

Markus

In your scenario you have criminal somehow able to find and identify three open carriers in a crowded bar. Then shoot all three of them before even one has time to fire back. Doesn't seem all that realistic to me and would require the criminal to have far more discipline than you credit legal firearm carriers with.

Can you list any innocent bystanders that were ever hit or killed by a legal firearms carrier while he is defending himself against a criminal? The way you talk it must happen every day so i'd be interested in seeing what must be a huge list of victims. You do know of some instances right?

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by August

In your scenario you have criminal somehow able to find and identify three open carriers in a crowded bar. Then shoot all three of them before even one has time to fire back. Doesn't seem all that realistic to me and would require the criminal to have far more discipline than you credit legal firearm carriers with.

Can you list any innocent bystanders that were ever hit or killed by a legal firearms carrier while he is defending himself against a criminal? The way you talk it must happen every day so i'd be interested in seeing what must be a huge list of victims. You do know of some instances right?

I know my English Grammar isn't perfect.
The story is a made up story

I wrote that he found two men with open carry while he looked around the first time and shot them first, he then toke another look and could see people rushing to the entré to get out-What he didn't see was that there was 3 more men with open carry.

The question is-How will they react, when the perpetrator starts to shoot wildly into the fleeing crowd ?

Secondly

There has been an another mass shooting, this time in Kentucky

Five people are dead after a gunman opened fire in a first-floor conference room of a bank in downtown Louisville, Kentucky, Monday morning, according to police.

Six additional victims, including a police officer, were transported to the hospital.

https://abc7chicago.com/active-shoot...oday/13109212/

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

The question is-How will they react, when the perpetrator starts to shoot wildly into the fleeing crowd

And my question is when have you ever heard of that happening? There are many examples of an armed citizen stopping a crime in progress but I have yet to hear of any instances that back up your theory.