Mass Shooting thread

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by August

A failure of what exactly Markus?

What would you call the forcible confiscation of millions of legally owned firearms as the left is demanding? Would that be a failure too?

I say leaving our schools open and undefended when we have the ability and means to protect them, that's what I would call a real failure.

What I meant was that your society has come so far in these school shootings that your teachers and guards has to carry gun in order to protect the children.

For me who's from Scandinavia/Germany it's unbelievable.

My comment isn't meant to criticize your society. It just made me

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Platapus

We need to start holding gun owners responsible and accountable for the proper safe storage of their weapons when not under their direct control.



Part of being a responsible gun owner is properly securing the weapon so it does not become accessible to the "wrong" people such as kids.

Originally Posted by August

We also need to have a conversation on how the medias coverage of these events and their perpetrators may actually be contributing to their frequency.

Agree 100%

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by August

You're making several assumptions, the biggest one being you think that the only way to secure a schools perimeter is to make it a prison. Well airports don't look like prisons, neither do banks yet both places would be extremely difficult targets for a mass shooter.

Says you. How many school shootings have there been in states where teachers can carry? None. Think about it.
Why didn't this latest nut not pick the other schools on her list? Too difficult because of police presence and difficulty getting into the school.

Same reason for both. Mass shooters like any other criminal shy away from hardened targets. Ever wonder why mass shootings ONLY happen in "gun free" zones?

Here we can agree. Our society has created a generation of narcissistic sociopaths. That is going to reverberate in our society for decades.

I agree with all of this. If the will is there, you can protect anyone. I believe it can be easily done without the schools feeling like a prison. If the schools feel a bit like a prison, so be it. I think the kids in these times would feel safer if they knew there were mechanisms including deadly force, in place to protect their safety while at School and Church. It's very sad but in these times, we have to think about our most vulnerable citizens, meaning our kids. That's not to say the other people, older or otherwise aren't just as Important.

This lunatic chose this school because it was a soft target. Apparently, if reports are correct, she / it considered other targets but chose not to attack them because they were better protected. Rockstar said you can't predict someone's behavior. That's mostly true but not always. People around this crazy had alerted authorities to how unbalanced this individual was. It's sad to say but nothing can substitute for being prepared for the worst and planing accordingly.

The media certainly isn't helping either when they sensationalize tragic incidents like this as you and Neal have said, for ratings in competing with other networks.

[Cybermat47]

Media sensationalism could lead to other potential shooters being inspired or, even worse, trying to outdo their predecessors to achieve infamy.

Of course, though, that's not a single solution to the issue. Gun control and mental health are other factors that need to be addressed.

[Skybird]

The basis is a culture of violence, a founding of that culture in and by violence, and a historical heritage of violence. Social and sociometrical and economical reasons cannot be separated from this, since they too base on these fundaments, in their typical national interpretation that makes the USA actually the USA and different fom other places. The cream on top is a media circucs that from day to night lives by endlessly propagating "fear" as its greatest guarantor of quota and an endless focussing on and repetition of crime and violence. Not to mention the entertainment industry that is almost trivializing violence, turning it into an entertainment factor.

America is addicted to violence, it has it in its genes and in its blood and bones.

Think of the man what you want, but in Bowling for Columbine, Michael Moore has worked out these connections as mercilessly as he has skillfully. It is and remains by far his best film, perhaps his only good film as some people say, I don't know, I don't know the others (or I forgot them, then i cannot have been too impressed: but BfC I remember).

Thats why I am pessimistic about linear instruments and measures being capable to solve the issue. All these calls for changes and laws and measures are cosmetic only, scratch only on the surface. Born in blood, living in blood, maybe summarises the dilemma best.

[Rockstar]

Last time this happened I proposed raising the age to 21 to purchase a firearm. If under 21 they can join the military and the government can train them to be proper killers. Also the purchaser must be capable of showing they are able to support themselves and if they have one a family. And they do not still live with mommy and daddy. And if they are taking prescription drugs having side effects of increased violent, suicidal and aggressive thoughts and behavior they relinquish their right to firearm possession until treatment and therapy is completed. And take those drugs off the market until ALL of the trial data is publicly available.

But leave me and my firearms out of the equation because I am NOT part of nor responsible for some nut cases personal problems and inability to cope and behave like a decent human being.

[les green01]

arm the teachers,arm us bus monitors,give me a means to protect my kids my high school kids can handle my 45 if i cash out,i know if i'm on the bus and hearing shots in school i'm going in arm or not but i want a chance to do damage,i lived my life let my kids lived theirs i guess if you guys hear me cash out in a shooting throw a wake on here

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The basis is a culture of violence, a founding of that culture in and by violence, and a historical heritage of violence. Social and sociometrical and economical reasons cannot be separated from this, since they too base on these fundaments, in their typical national interpretation that makes the USA actually the USA and different fom other places.



America is addicted to violence, it has it in its genes and in its blood and bones.

I think that's a very broad and inaccurate generalization. Sounds clever, though. If we try, we can see other cultures have been the setting for extreme violence, too.

The everyday American is no more violent than anyone else. We do have an issue where our rights are being exploited by mentally ill people, most of whom should be in a treatment center, and an irresponsible news media, which capitalizes on these events to "sell papers".

We certainly do have an issue with our justice system, we seem to be way too permissive with offenders.

Not to mention the entertainment industry that is almost trivializing violence, turning it into an entertainment factor.

Yes, liberal Hollywood sells what the people want. Violent movies sell tickets, worldwide, though, not just in the US.

I do agree, these days it seems the writers and producers are too lazy to make good films, they just grab something with a gun a run with it.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Last time this happened I proposed raising the age to 21 to purchase a firearm. If under 21 they can join the military and the government can train them to be proper killers. Also the purchaser must be capable of showing they are able to support themselves and if they have one a family. And they do not still live with mommy and daddy. And if they are taking prescription drugs having side effects of increased violent, suicidal and aggressive thoughts and behavior they relinquish their right to firearm possession until treatment and therapy is completed. And take those drugs off the market until ALL of the trial data is publicly available.

But leave me and my firearms out of the equation because I am NOT part of nor responsible for some nut cases personal problems and inability to cope and behave like a decent human being.

I definitely disagree with with that first paragraph, Age of majority under Federal law is 18, if you are old enough to vote and exercise other Constitutional Rights then you should also be able to avail yourself of the 2nd amendment.
The 24th Amendment pretty that makes wealth a requirement for exercising a Constitutional right a moot point (ie: a poll tax and or property requirement).

Drug and mental issues are addressed in title 18 USC. prohibiting certain persons from owning or purchasing a firearm, and most states go further with restrictions not to mention the new fad of "Red Flag Laws". (which I'm not a fan of, as the potential for abuse is very high).

Maybe the answer is to start prosecuting gun violations rather than classifying them as "mutual combat" (reference to gang shooting in Chicago 2021) or pleading them down/dismissing them in court proceedings.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by MaDef

I definitely disagree with with that first paragraph, Age of majority under Federal law is 18, if you are old enough to vote and exercise other Constitutional Rights then you should also be able to avail yourself of the 2nd amendment.
The 24th Amendment pretty that makes wealth a requirement for exercising a Constitutional right a moot point (ie: a poll tax and or property requirement).

Drug and mental issues are addressed in title 18 USC. prohibiting certain persons from owning or purchasing a firearm, and most states go further with restrictions not to mention the new fad of "Red Flag Laws". (which I'm not a fan of, as the potential for abuse is very high).

Maybe the answer is to start prosecuting gun violations rather than classifying them as "mutual combat" (reference to gang shooting in Chicago 2021) or pleading them down/dismissing them in court proceedings.

A child having reached the age of majority (18 years) may currently purchase a firearm. I’m actually OK with that. My big concern is with attempting to prevent criminals like the Uvalde shooter from purchasing firearms. He was an irresponsible piece of trash going nowhere in life, living like a bum in his crackhead parents house with nothing else better to spend money on.

Reports suggest he had been previously arrested as a minor for planning a crime. Unfortunately a minors records are usually sealed. If he had to wait until 21 he would have a record that can be looked into. Either that make a minors arrest record available for background checks.

The age of license (21 years old) prohibits children from purchasing alcohol. I believe the same can be applied to the purchase of firearms.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

A child having reached the age of majority (18 years) may currently purchase a firearm. I’m actually OK with that. My big concern is with attempting to prevent criminals like the Uvalde shooter from purchasing firearms. He was an irresponsible piece of trash going nowhere in life, living like a bum in his crackhead parents house with nothing else better to spend money on.

Reports suggest he had been previously arrested as a minor for planning a crime. Unfortunately a minors records are usually sealed. If he had to wait until 21 he would have a record that can be looked into. Either that make a minors arrest record available for background checks.

The age of license (21 years old) prohibits children from purchasing alcohol. I believe the same can be applied to the purchase of firearms.

Ahh..... But you forget, the use of Alcohol is not a Constitutional right. There is a big difference.

As I understand it starting in June 2022, background checks do include Juvenile records, at least for 18-21 year-olds.

[Rockstar]

Maybe that’s the the case. In my opinion I see a difference between a right to bears arms and a right to purchase arms. Anyway, I’m gonna finish my meal now.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Maybe that’s the the case. In my opinion I see a difference between a right to bears arms and a right to purchase arms. Anyway, I’m gonna finish my meal now.

How does that work? there are 3 ways to acquire a firearm, as a gift, as a purchase, or steal it. seeing as stealing is illegal, and I don't see the Government "gifting" firearms to it's citizens. that leaves purchasing a firearm.

[Sean C]

Originally Posted by MaDef

there are 3 ways to acquire a firearm, as a gift, as a purchase, or steal it.

You forgot one: make it yourself.

[Rockstar]

Or obtain one through an inheritance, have one gifted to you by a family member or just use one that belongs to your mom and dad when you go hunting or to the range. They can also join the military.

I don’t think there is any constitutional guarantee which demands a privately owned company must sell you a firearm.