Mass Shooting thread

[Rockstar]

More than one out of 10 Americans over age 12—roughly 11 percent—take some form of anti-depressant/SSRI that has been known for DECADES to significantly increase thoughts of violence, suicide and aggressive behavior in children and adolescents who used these medications.

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Made me sad reading this article



https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/29/h...-dg/index.html

Markus

On a related note, over 7700 children 18 and under died of drug overdoses. Which is the bigger threat to kids? guns or drugs?

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by MaDef

On a related note, over 7700 children 18 and under died of drug overdoses. Which is the bigger threat to kids? guns or drugs?

Does it really matter? Both need to be addressed.

[August]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Does it really matter? Both need to be addressed.

22 thousand plus gun control laws in this country have failed to solve the problem. Failed to even reduce the problem. Even more constitutionally infringing laws and regulations can not be the answer.

I think we need to do two things. We need to harden our school perimeters and provide security. We also need to have a conversation on how the medias coverage of these events and their perpetrators may actually be contributing to their frequency.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by August

22 thousand plus gun control laws in this country have failed to solve the problem. Failed to even reduce the problem. Even more constitutionally infringing laws and regulations can not be the answer.

I think we need to do two things. We need to harden our school perimeters and provide security. We also need to have a conversation on how the medias coverage of these events and their perpetrators may actually be contributing to their frequency.

Indeed, after this sad event in Tennessee, there have been " copy cat " events country wide in the last few days. Security seems to be a very easy and rather elusive means to address these recurring issues. To the Law Enforcement officers credit who responded to this active shooter situation, they handled this situation as quick as humanly possibly and most likely averted more innocent lives being lost in dispatching this disturbed individual.

Legislatures in various states have floated the idea of having licensed and armed teachers. Some colleges are allowing their students to come to college armed, provided they have a legally obtained concealed carry license. I'm not sure how good of an idea this is however, one thing I am sure of.

Properly armed and trained people who carry weapons make very poor targets and for obvious reasons.

[August]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Indeed, after this sad event in Tennessee, there have been copy " cat events " country wide in the last few days. Security seems to be a very easy and rather elusive means to address these recurring issues. To the Law Enforcement officers credit who responded to this active shooter situation, they handled this situation as quick as humanly possibly and most likely averted more innocent lives in dispatching this disturbed individual.

Legislatures in various states have floated the idea of having licensed and armed teachers. Some colleges are allowing their students to come to college armed, provided they have a legally obtained concealed carry license. I'm not sure how good of an idea this is however, one thing I am sure of.

Properly armed and trained people who carry weapons make very poor targets and for obvious reasons.

And just as important if not more they should be hardening school physical security. There are too many unlocked doors and easily shattered large glass panels. Keeping a mad killer outside even for a few minutes might well give law enforcement enough time to neutralize them before they can get at the kids or staff.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by August

And just as important if not more they should be hardening school physical security. There are too many unlocked doors and easily shattered large glass panels. Keeping a mad killer outside even for a few minutes might well give law enforcement enough time to neutralize them before they can get at the kids or staff.

That is exactly right. Armed staff / teachers may make a difference as well.

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by August

And just as important if not more they should be hardening school physical security. There are too many unlocked doors and easily shattered large glass panels. Keeping a mad killer outside even for a few minutes might well give law enforcement enough time to neutralize them before they can get at the kids or staff.

Well, schools aren't prisons, and they aren't designed as such for a reason: to make the children not feel like a prisoner. OK, who cares about children's feelings, anyway?
More importantly: all the easily available entryways you want to seal of are at the same time easily available exits. Your idea of creating chokepoints to make it difficult to get into the building also make it difficult to get out of the building, like during a fire.
And most importantly: in most cases of mass shootings the perpetrators know their targets very well, and they have found ways to get in despite hardened security.


Armed teachers? American teachers are already not paid enough and treated like ****, now you want to burden them with the role of SWAT as well? Also this idea would also INCREASE the number of guns in schools.

First of this would make it easier for a perpetrator to get a gun (it's down to mugging 5'1" Mrs. Smith, basically). Secondly teachers are normal people with normal problems, so arming them might have unintended consequences as well (mass shootings HAVE been commited by teachers as well).
Even with training the teachers don't become marines or SWAT members. They only become people in street clothes running around armed. If there really was a mass shooting: would a real SWAT team ask before shooting someone running around with a gun whether he/she was the perpetrator? I highly doubt that.

"Arming teachers" is like the typical American answer to guns: "More guns". That has never worked before.



And with all of this you are only fighting the symptoms, of course, but not the underlying problems, which -I admit- are much more complex to identify, let alone addressing them.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

...Armed teachers? American teachers are already not paid enough and treated like ****, now you want to burden them with the role of SWAT as well?....

That is the big fallacy over arming teachers. The military doesn't just give a recruit a gun and a pat on the head, so how can you expect 3rd Grade teacher Mrs. Chulsets to fill the roll of armed protector? The idea is pure bull****! Sure, schools can be hardened even more, but that's not enough. More needs to be done at the inconvenience of gun ownership, or should I say gun trade.

Keep the illegal gun trade to Mexico in check as well.

[August]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

Well, schools aren't prisons, and they aren't designed as such for a reason: to make the children not feel like a prisoner. OK, who cares about children's feelings, anyway?
More importantly: all the easily available entryways you want to seal of are at the same time easily available exits. Your idea of creating chokepoints to make it difficult to get into the building also make it difficult to get out of the building, like during a fire.
And most importantly: in most cases of mass shootings the perpetrators know their targets very well, and they have found ways to get in despite hardened security.

You're making several assumptions, the biggest one being you think that the only way to secure a schools perimeter is to make it a prison. Well airports don't look like prisons, neither do banks yet both places would be extremely difficult targets for a mass shooter.

Your second assumption is that stronger doors and entryways create choke points. It doesn't have to be that way either. It's easy to make doors and windows that are difficult to open from the outside but a snap to open from the inside. Crash bars and electronic strikes. I've put in dozens of them. The only way they don't help is if somebody props one open like what happened in Ulvade.

"Arming teachers" is like the typical American answer to guns: "More guns". That has never worked before.

Says you. How many school shootings have there been in states where teachers can carry? None. Think about it.
Why didn't this latest nut not pick the other schools on her list? Too difficult because of police presence and difficulty getting into the school.

Same reason for both. Mass shooters like any other criminal shy away from hardened targets. Ever wonder why mass shootings ONLY happen in "gun free" zones?

And with all of this you are only fighting the symptoms, of course, but not the underlying problems, which -I admit- are much more complex to identify, let alone addressing them.

Here we can agree. Our society has created a generation of narcissistic sociopaths. That is going to reverberate in our society for decades.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by August

Says you. How many school shootings have there been in states where teachers can carry? None. Think about it.
Why didn't this latest nut not pick the other schools on her list? Too difficult because of police presence and difficulty getting into the school.

Same reason for both. Mass shooters like any other criminal shy away from hardened targets. Ever wonder why mass shootings ONLY happen in "gun free" zones?

Here we can agree. Our society has created a generation of narcissistic sociopaths. That is going to reverberate in our society for decades.

I see it as a failure that your teachers has to carry guns and that you have to have walk through a special door(like the ones they have in airport)

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I see it as a failure that your teachers has to carry guns and that you have to have walk through a special door(like the ones they have in airport)

Markus

You want people to do something about an individuals mind and how it thinks. That’s impossible.


What I hate is hypocrisy. Everyday you knowingly approve of child slavery, their deaths from mining precious and rare earth metals and the poisoning and destruction of the environment those mining operations cause. You willing support all of it and say nothing because in all honesty you don’t care one bit about those children or if they face hard misery and death.

You’re not alone though I don’t really care either. I gotta have my iPad.

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I see it as a failure that your teachers has to carry guns and that you have to have walk through a special door(like the ones they have in airport)

Markus

A failure of what exactly Markus?

What would you call the forcible confiscation of millions of legally owned firearms as the left is demanding? Would that be a failure too?

I say leaving our schools open and undefended when we have the ability and means to protect them, that's what I would call a real failure.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

You want people to do something about an individuals mind and how it thinks. That’s impossible.


What I hate is hypocrisy. Everyday you knowingly approve of child slavery, their deaths from mining precious ad rare earth metals and the poisoning and destruction of the environment those mining operations cause. You willing support all of it and say nothing because in all honesty you don’t care one bit about those children or if they face hard misery and death.

You’re not alone though I don’t really care either. I gotta have my iPad.

Touché You got me there my friend-I have no argument to put up.

Markus