US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Otto Harkaman]

IMHO it would be a mistake to think we can step back thinking things will return to normal with regards to China and Taiwan. Clearly things have moved forward a step and might as well try to arm them better because the Chinese will never be appeased.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Why is it I can't help thinking if it had been Trump he would be praised for sticking it to PRC instead of being wished shot down.

And I stand corrected on corporate tax.

I can’t help thinking why anyone is still thinking about Trump. The good ol’ “ya but what about Trump” card.

I asked myself why did Pelosi go to Taiwan? I think it was a selfish publicity stunt pandering to the 6 million Asian voters in California. Yes, I believe she has the right the go but that doesn’t mean it was a good idea. Our President is the constitutional envoy of the people and head of the Foreign Service. Before Pelosi left Sleepy Joe cautioned publicly that the U.S. military felt Pelosi’s visit was "not a good idea right now." Finishing the sentence “…but I don’t know what the status of it is,". Seems to me we may no longer have a functional presidency it looks more like a Democrat lead free for all. Adding to the deficit hand over fist and pushing for a war on a second front for the sake of a vote.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I can’t help thinking why anyone is still thinking about Trump. The good ol’ “ya but what about Trump” card...

I would love to forget about him, but he just won't go away on his own, and is still a subject of interest in the January 6th debacle, so yes, what about Trump?

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Otto Harkaman

IMHO it would be a mistake to think we can step back thinking things will return to normal with regards to China and Taiwan. Clearly things have moved forward a step and might as well try to arm them better because the Chinese will never be appeased.

Things were normal until Pelosi took her tour on the taxpayer dime. The problem with let’s just arm Taiwan so they can fight for independence isn’t what we agreed too with China back in ‘79. When then U.S. moved to recognize the People’s Republic of China (Beijing) and de-recognize the Republic of China (Taipei). Credit is due to Pelosi when she visited Taiwan she was very careful with her words not mentioning or even hinting at a willingness to support or promote Taiwan’s independence.

As for arms sales one of the six assurances signed on 17 August 1982, the U.S. stated “that it does not seek to carry out a long-term policy of arms sales to Taiwan”; “that its arms sales to Taiwan will not exceed, either in qualitative or in quantitative terms, the level of those supplied in recent years since the establishment of diplomatic relations between the United States and China”; and “that it intends to reduce gradually its sales of arms to Taiwan, leading over a period of time to a final resolution.”

One can, of course, take a more cynical view and argue, as E.H. Carr had done in 1939, that “even formal agreements are mere snapshots reflecting the balance of power at a particular point in time, and that as power relations change, it is natural that policies should change accordingly and that promises made in the past will no longer be viewed as binding”. But do we really want a war on a 2nd front right now? China is now holding military live fire exercises around Taiwan on account of Pelosi’s publicity stunt. Unfortunately there’s only so many mega rich, Democrats can tax to pay for another war before they start more deficit spending.

I’m all for the defence of Taiwan I just not all that willing to be the one to pick a fight.

[Buddahaid]

China lost face when she ignored their saber rattles. I think they are just making tough noises to compensate now.

The quote from Carr reminded me of Putin's disregard for the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.

[Buddahaid]

[Rockstar]

Assurance #6 which the U.S. agreed too under the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 states that any effort to determine the future of Taiwan by other than peaceful means, including by boycotts or embargoes, is a threat to the peace and security of the Western Pacific area and to be considered of grave concern to the United States. It also establishes that the U.S. decision to establish diplomatic relations with the People’s Republic of China rests upon the expectation that the future of Taiwan will be determined by peaceful means.


Do we really want to pick a fight right now and start a war on a second front? The POTUS and according to him our military didn’t think her visit was a good idea and obviously neither did China. But she did it anyways for the sake of her own vanity and pandering to the 6 million Asian voters in California.

[Buddahaid]

Maybe so on the Asian vote and so what? Isn't that just normal political maneuvering?

As far as being at war, I don't see much difference to what has been going on for decades already.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Maybe so on the Asian vote and so what? Isn't that just normal political maneuvering?

As far as being at war, I don't see much difference to what has been going on for decades already.

Under normal circumstances in countries we have normal relations where normal people greet you with open arms and don’t threaten to shoot your aircraft down then yes then I would agree it’s normal political pandering and schmoozing But going to Taiwan just for for grins was a bad move placing us and Taiwan in a worse position than we were in just a few days ago.

The Anti-Secession Law, adopted by Beijing in 2005, sets forth three conditions under which China would be justified in using “non-peaceful means and other necessary measures to protect China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity: 1) Taiwan independence forces cause Taiwan’s secession from China; 2) Major incidents entailing Taiwan’s secession from China occur; or 3) possibilities for peaceful reunification are completely exhausted.


How about we let them make the first move instead

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I can’t help thinking why anyone is still thinking about Trump. The good ol’ “ya but what about Trump” card.

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I would love to forget about him, but he just won't go away on his own, and is still a subject of interest in the January 6th debacle, so yes, what about Trump?

All want him back, from Russia to Hungary to the US

"I have to say that this war would never have broken out if we had been a little luckier and at this crucial hour the President of the United States of America was called Donald Trump, and if before that we had managed to persuade Angela Merkel not to leave office:
if Donald Trump had been the President of the USA and Angela Merkel the Chancellor of Germany. But we were not lucky, and so now we are in this war."
(Victor Orban, ruler 'president' of Hungary, in one of his recent speeches.)

-> Of course, Russia would have now conquered Ukraine and all would be happy, waiting for the baltic states and then the rest of Europe to come next. "We will only stop at Lisbon" (Putin, and Goebbels Godunov 2022)

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

All want him back, from Russia to Hungary to the US

"I have to say that this war would never have broken out if we had been a little luckier and at this crucial hour the President of the United States of America was called Donald Trump, and if before that we had managed to persuade Angela Merkel not to leave office:
if Donald Trump had been the President of the USA and Angela Merkel the Chancellor of Germany. But we were not lucky, and so now we are in this war."
(Victor Orban, ruler 'president' of Hungary, in one of his recent speeches.)

-> Of course, Russia would have now conquered Ukraine and all would be happy, waiting for the baltic states and then the rest of Europe to come next. "We will only stop at Lisbon" (Putin, and Goebbels Godunov 2022)

“And now we have this war.” Just remember Trump warned you, a lot of people warned you Germans to pull your heads out of your collective arses and look what you and your politicians were doing by dealing with Putin. Face it Nord Stream and your colluding with Putin now hold you hostage and isolated Ukraine even further and placed the Baltics at risk because all you Germans seem to give a damn about is your ego and cheap gas.

[em2nought]

Democrats love them some Dick Cheney. Up is down, down is up.

[August]

Originally Posted by em2nought

Democrats love them some Dick Cheney. Up is down, down is up.

Oh yeah the guy that they were claiming was the very personification of evil itself are quite willing to promote him when he says things that they can use against the other objects of their hatred.

[Buddahaid]

Falls under the anything but Trump that got Biden elected.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Falls under the anything but Trump that got Biden elected.

Now I got curious would Biden have any chance to win if there had been an another President-Example Hillary ?

As I use to say to my fb friends-Biden won because they wanted Trump out..any of the Dems candidate would have won.

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