Tiger vs t34, best tank sim??

[USS Sea Tiger]

Hi
I am looking for a new tank sim, I am still using battlefronts first series games. road to barbarossa ect

tvt seems interesting, are there mods so you can drive stugs and such?

is there something outhere that is better, more vehicles to fight with?

thank you

Mike D

[ZeeWolf]

Hello Tiger,
You need to check out the existing threads here and I am sure you can learn
allot about the transformation T34 vs Tiger is going through and see maybe if it's the tank simulation for you.

Cheers!

ZeeWolf

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by USS Sea Tiger

is there something outhere that is better, more vehicles to fight with?

Yes, but only for modern era, not WWII.

For WWII, you can chose between Tiger vs T34, and Steel Fury.

For modern era, SBP. Many different MBTs, IFVs and APC to ride.

[frinik]

Nice try Skybird but I think he meant WWII

BTW, I tried SPB Gold edition and it really is a great game. Very interesting and entertaining. It still is not going to distract me from playing Steel Fury , Panzer Elite or TvsT but it's a nice change and better than T72 Balkans on fire as far as modern tanksims are concerned.

I know you feel as passionate about Steel Beasts as Zee Wolf feels about TvsT and it's great but you have to understand that most tank sim fans are passionate about tanks themselves.I know you are not because you said so in the past several times. You don't relate to tank in real life.But most of the rest of us do relate or really dig tanks.Which is why WWII tank sims fans won't click when you tell them to play SB with Turm Aus or stripped down.It's got nothing to do with SB as a game and everything to do with atmosphere, history or simply longing for things as they used to be. Why are so many people still watching avidly films about medieval Europe or Ancient Rome or WWII? WWII defined the modern world, changed it forever and was simp0ly the greatest modern,( and let's hope the last one) conflict of the industrial age.It's got everything in superlative; men involved, years, machines, casualties, sheer geographic extension, archives and documents available. SB is a very nice game that deserves to be known on its own merits but when you are trying to sell it to WWII tanksim enthusiasts it's like trying to sell T Shirts of Mick Jagger in front of Elvis Presley's house or pretending that Lady Gaga is Madonna....

Cheers

[Skybird]

A, Frinik - I just just answered a question wether there is a tank sim featuring more playables, and listed the three tank titles he can chose from.

[frinik]

Skybird; I may be calling on your expert knowledge of Steel Beasts in the future.The game is new to me and I would gratefully accept some tips or advice.

I am just puzzled through; if you don't feel any passion or interest in tanks then why do you so fervently play a tank sim?Why not a plane sim like IL2 or others of the kind or one of the excellent sub sims?

Cheers

Frinik

[Skybird]

Where do you get your conclusions from?

I still like SBP.

But for certain reasons, namely two, I decided to give up the "fever" for it, and just use it privately like I want, staying away from the public scene about it and not commenting on it anymore. One reason was a very unpleasant personal incident in another forum last late autumn, which I really took queer and that made me leaving all SBP-related forums alltogether. The other reason was that my attempt to be a private person and talk in favour of SBP, and being a moderator and deal with all tank game related entries neutrally and equal, was not accepted, it seems - people avoided this forum for the most, the number of TvT and SF-related topics and replies launched by people was extremely low. So it was time that this place got a new management with a new name on the door. Since then, there has been no SBP content anymore, and everything foucssed on TvT - however, activity level went up again. So, regarding the acchieved effects, my decision obviously was the right one to make.

That's all! Don't try to read so many other things into me! BTW, I have also SH3, BoBII, FS9, SBP, CotA, chess installed. It's not that I do not sim in my tank anymore - it's also not that that is the only thing I do.

P.S. For questions on SBP, Lieste might be the better name wo watch out for. He has far deeper knowledge of it, with contacts to the team. He used to occasionally visit this forum last year, don't know if he still does.

[Chucky]

Frinik,I have SB Pro,it's fantastic but I don't get to play it much now.

I know that Skybird has been VERY enthusiastic about it in the past,for good reason.

[frinik]

Skybird I think you're the one trying to read things into what I said

It simply that I remembered that you often mentioned in some threads that although you love SB you don't relate to tanks in real life so I was puzzled and curious.Nothing but unhealthy curiosity

Yes I remember the incident you are referring to. You were very unfairly tarred by somebody who tought you were showing bias against an another tank sim(TvsT?) where in fact you were just trying to extoll SB and defend your point of view.Unlike that person,I am open-minded which is why I listened to your advice and got myself S.B Gold Edition.I also like people who have opinions and passions and are willing to stand up and defend them rationally and reasonably which I think you do very well.So no hidden agenda in my questions Skybird. BoBII, CotA, FS9? I am afraid you've lost me.What kind of games are they?

[Skybird]

You refer to that ugly event one year earlier, also taking place in autumn then, when some people took it upon them to feel snapped that my review draft of Steel Fury was not matching their sympathy for the game back then. But that was a complete different thing, taking place in three different forums. Back then I already was close to quit here, but Neal talked me out of it, somewhat. I have flown over that draft again three or four months ago, when deciding to quit here - and I still stick with every single wordI wrote, and also with my two-split score (good action game, sub-mediocre simulation). And as we know today, soon after that row a big, big silence fell over Steel Fury. Last time I checked for it, it was hard to see any activity centred on it, it was only minor, comparing to the standards with other releases. I take that as a late verification of my assessments back then. The longevity of Steel Fury was not that long at all. It is even difficult to get it anymore in Germany, there was no re-release or second edition.

But this autumn, neither SF nor Neal nor tanksim-forum had anything to do with it, it was not about SF, but about SBP, a stab coming from a most unexpected direction. I want to leave it to that.

I just want to make clear that both episodes are two totally different episodes indeed.

P.S.
Battle of Britain II
Conquest of the Aegean
Flight Simulator 9

And with this, I think, this thread has been hijacked long enough.

[frinik]

Skybird, re Steel Fury actually Steel Fury is very much alive but not on this forum it´s true.Quite a few of us play it but it´s more active on HQ sim and russian language fora.I play and love it and I started creating user-made missions 3 weeks ago.I have already 18 made including some existing one I spruced up. SF has a very friendly missions editor and good AI.The maps are gresat abnd while the existing game is tame it has potential which I and others are taking advantage of.And not to contradict you but simply to inform SF is very much alive if not in Germany in other countries including the US.The game has and is being modded constantly with dozens of new vehicles and missions every month.

This forum has been taken over by TvsT thanks to ZeeWolf´s tremendous work.Likewise SB is not very much talked about on this forum but it is very much alive too but on other fora.

Cheers

[Skybird]

Last time I checked, early this year, simHQ had little activity on SF, here on tanksim it is practically dead, and lighthouse forum is gone, and another long-running panzer forum was shut down.

On the "very good AI" I disagree, and did so from the beginning on. Good AI is something different, imho. But okay, my opinion on it is history - a text draft one and a half years old.

I would not say this forum has been taken over by TvT. The cause for it appearing so is that SF and SBP do not get any entries, leaving the stage to TvT alone. And there are no other titles beyond these three that could be taken into account for featuring simulation aspects.

[frinik]

Skybird read again I said good AI not very good.May be not as good as SB ´s AI but the price of the 2 ain´t the same either!The infantry is good and the armour reacts in surprising ways at time.Yesterday for example I was palying one of my user-made missions and amongst burning tanks out of the darkness the last 2 surviving Soviet tanks split and while one focussed my attention and was blasted away by my Tiger the one one flanked me and blasted me into oblivion before I had time to reload and kill it.Many times I have noted uncanny behaviour from the AI.As I said probably not as good as SB´s but miles away from TvsT´s ridiculous AI or even Red Orchestra´s. Good enough to satisfy my needs....

SF and Sb still have occasional entries but Tvst has been resurging ever since ZeeWolf made his announcement about Kursk last November.

SF is very much alive on the Francophone forum of sims, on panzer sims, Avia forum in Russian,Graviteam´s one it´s got threads here and on HQ Sims enough to keep it alive .Anyway there´s room for all sims the more the better!

Anyway it's good to disagree.There's nothing more boring than having to argue with oneself

[Skybird]

SF's AI is "Schnee von gestern", I mean the whole trouble was one and a half years ago, so I refer to the long list of disasters I had with it that I described in detail in that old review. I spent a whole chapter on AI issues. No need for me to go into that debate again. It is a bad AI for me not only when comparing it to SBP, but to many other of the sims I play(ed). Back then I called it broken. And I still think of it that way.

Again, for my reasons to think that way, see that old text. No need to discuss that kind of stuff again, it can only get ugly. If any mods have changed the AI, fine. But I did not deal with modded AI back then, but the default one. and thta gave me the creeps and made me cursing time and again.

[frinik]

Yes Skybird, I know what you mean by " yesterday's snow" for you. I remember reading your post about Steel Fury's AI and being puzzled about it. I never had that kind of experience with SF's AI and nobody else has reported it in threads I have read.Could it be that your install was corrupted?After all it can't be that bad that it was voted or named armour of the year by HQ SIM I think.

I remember cursing at times the stupidity of the AI in SF and other games but overall I have been satisfied with it.

Yes Steel Fury's AI may be " yesterday's snow " as you put it but as I said after playing Panzer Elite and T34 versus Tiger it really shines believe me.May be it's case of mediocre winning against horrible.May be as you suggest modding has improved the AI( for some tanks it's true I have noticed that they are more aggressive than before).

There' s no need for any discussion to get ugly.I am not the type and I personally respect diverging point of views. You have yours and I have mine and it's fine like that. We can share our respective differences without going for each other's throats!

One thing I agree with you; Steel Beast is not a game and it's definitely not a tank game.It is in a class by itself.I would call it a Tank Training Simulation Software. It was designed by professionals to train professional soldiers from some of the best armies in the World. The graphics are not the prettiest because the object of the programme was not to entertain but to train.This also why the AI is way above the " competition".If some modder could update the graphics that sim would probably sell even better.I also think that people interested or looking in superior quality of AI and gameplay and willing to disregard the price tag should go for it!

This why you cannot objectively compare it to the tank sim games (SF, T72, PE, TvsT and others) available which are in a separate price and quality class.Of these, my experience is that Steel Fury is way above in what it delivers and allows you to do with it.Others may have had a different perspective or experience and I understand Still if people were to ask me what is the best tank sim game available I would tell them SF but I would also tell them that SB is the best tank sim available punto!

Ok end of lecture. It's always good to exchange point of views without coming to blows!

Are you German or an expat living in Germany?

Cheers