[REL] Fifi Enhancements for NYGM

[clowncarsplatoon]

OK I understand.

What about torpedoes insta-killls ? Rate seems to be quite high now. In my last convoy attack 4 shots 4 large merchant sunk (5000 - 7000 tons ) within 1-2 minutes according to patrol log (9.48, 9.48, 9.48, 9.59). It took way longer to sink before and more torpedoes.

[FUBAR295]

Originally Posted by clowncarsplatoon

OK I understand.

What about torpedoes insta-killls ? Rate seems to be quite high now. In my last convoy attack 4 shots 4 large merchant sunk (5000 - 7000 tons ) within 1-2 minutes according to patrol log (9.48, 9.48, 9.48, 9.59). It took way longer to sink before and more torpedoes.

Fifi went in and corrected the zones in all of the merchantmen and warships, including the Uboats. If you are on target now and the hit is in a vital zone, you will likely get a sinking with one eel. With that said, I have had many that took two eel to get a sinking and these were under 3000 tons. I tend to send two eels to the target to insure I get a sinking anyway.


I did run into a large tanker that took four eels to sink. So it is possible.


With the corrected zones the ship sinking times have changed, too. I have seen a change in sinking times, but nothing that I will get hung up on.

[HW3]

What about torpedoes insta-killls ? Rate seems to be quite high now. In my last convoy attack 4 shots 4 large merchant sunk (5000 - 7000 tons ) within 1-2 minutes according to patrol log (9.48, 9.48, 9.48, 9.59). It took way longer to sink before and more torpedoes.

Silent Otto Kretschmer, as he was known as, was once known to say "Fire one torpedo per target, not fanned salvoes".

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by FUBAR295

With the corrected zones the ship sinking times have changed, too. I have seen a change in sinking times, but nothing that I will get hung up on.

Yes they changed, but for next update, they should be back slightly to what they were

[rik007]

Hi Fifi,

I send you a pm.

Rik007

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by rik007

Hi Fifi,

I sinds you a pm.

Rik007

Forgot to answer you, sorry.
Now it’s done!

[bweiss]

On a different subject here, let me ask someone in the know as to the purpose of selecting the "Use Fatigue Model" in SH3 Cmdr, and then leaving a specific fatigue model deselected? That is both Fifi's recommended default setting, as well as the old NYGM 2.5/3.6f recommendation. But what does that actually result in?

The old NYGM was confusing to me in its explanation of what they were attempting to do. NYGM had the Not_Your_Grand_Mothers_Crew_Management_Mod_1.1, which I actually liked a lot, but it came with a host of associated files that needed to be hacked into compatibility with other mods. And then it also had crew compartment limits that showed a blued out crewman and a circle red x, if that crewman was in an unused compartment position for which SH3 would then not put a crewman in those compartment slots on its own. The player could, but SH3 would just ignore those compartment slots.

I wouldn't even attempt to tinker with those files with this new mod. But it seemed to me that the NYGM readme was alluding to a modified form of their fatigue model embedded in NYGM 2.5 or 3.6f, couldn't figure that out either, but perhaps I just misunderstood all that. Never the less it seemed to result in some type of fatigue model in the old NYGM. Selecting that is; the "Use Fatigue Model", and then not selecting an actual fatigue model.

So then the question is; why select "Use Fatigue Model" in SH3 Cmdr, if no specific fatigue model is going to be selected? What does that do in and of itself? Why not just deselect "Use Fatigue Model" in SH3 Cmdr in the first place?


Hope that's not too confusing, I'm trying to understand but clearly don't know as much about this as I once thought.

[FUBAR295]

Originally Posted by bweiss

On a different subject here, let me ask someone in the know as to the purpose of selecting the "Use Fatigue Model" in SH3 Cmdr, and then leaving a specific fatigue model deselected? That is both Fifi's recommended default setting, as well as the old NYGM 2.5/3.6f recommendation. But what does that actually result in?

The old NYGM was confusing to me in its explanation of what they were attempting to do. NYGM had the Not_Your_Grand_Mothers_Crew_Management_Mod_1.1, which I actually liked a lot, but it came with a host of associated files that needed to be hacked into compatibility with other mods. And then it also had crew compartment limits that showed a blued out crewman and a circle red x, if that crewman was in an unused compartment position for which SH3 would then not put a crewman in those compartment slots on its own. The player could, but SH3 would just ignore those compartment slots.

I wouldn't even attempt to tinker with those files with this new mod. But it seemed to me that the NYGM readme was alluding to a modified form of their fatigue model embedded in NYGM 2.5 or 3.6f, couldn't figure that out either, but perhaps I just misunderstood all that. Never the less it seemed to result in some type of fatigue model in the old NYGM. Selecting that is; the "Use Fatigue Model", and then not selecting an actual fatigue model.

So then the question is; why select "Use Fatigue Model" in SH3 Cmdr, if no specific fatigue model is going to be selected? What does that do in and of itself? Why not just deselect "Use Fatigue Model" in SH3 Cmdr in the first place?

Oh, almost forgot. What in the world is the "Default SH3" fatigue model in Cmdr? I honestly never noticed that before. SH3 Cmdr has a fatigue model of its own right out of the box? What is that?


Hope that's not too confusing, I'm trying to understand but clearly I don't.

I do not use the Fatigue models, can't be bother moving those tiny little figure here and there, waste of time.


Anyway, I would take it that it is Fifi's setup that is the default. There are various options listed in SH3 Cmdr, you can go through the options and select each one and try them out. The RUB version is one of the first I believe, to use a crew fatigue management system outside of what was provided in SH3.



I do have a copy of the NYGM Crew Management Mod and can convert it over to a JSGME file, if you really like that mod.


Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[bweiss]

Originally Posted by FUBAR295

I do have a copy of the NYGM Crew Management Mod and can convert it over to a JSGME file, if you really like that mod.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

Oh wow, thanks Fubar. I was just looking thru the NYGM CMM 1.1 mod, and figured I could probably modify all the necessary files, except for the data/Submarine/NSS_Uboatxxx.sim files for each boat that I presume (perhaps incorrectly), need to be modified for Steel Coffin v.5? I've never been able to get the S3D tool to work for me very well. I'm also not sure about all the Data/Cfg files though. Most are pretty straight forward, some not so much.

Are these CMM 1.1 Submarine NSS files compatible without modification? Don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth. But since I would need to use S3D to find out, I'm in the dark as to the compatibility question with Fifi's SC v.5.

So the question is;

1. Are the NYGM CMM 1.1, Data/Submarine/NSS_Uboatxxx.sim files compatible with the Steel Coffin v.5 version where one can just replace them and CMM will work with SC v.5?

(Providing one also then converts (inserts data), into the Data/Cfg files (basic, sim, and all the crew files, and the Data/Menu/en_menu.txt, and finally the "menu_1024_768.ini" file entries).

I'm presuming all of these files need to have their internal information inserted into Fifi's files, or perhaps not all of them need changed at all? Not sure about all that either. The "en_menu.txt" and "menu_1024_768.ini" are simple enough. Basic.cfg, and Sim.cfg, I'm not entirely sure about. They change aspects, but whether or not that's compatible with SC v.5, I do not know. I can see i.e,. Fifi changed renown values in the Basic.cfg file, that CMM 1.1 alters. They (NYGM and Fifi), are approaching the aspect of how renown is granted and the ultimate outcome of it for one's career, and both take a bit of a different approach. So I don't want to mess up what Fifi has done here, but I also would like to try CMM 1.1 as I prefer it to those fatigue models currently in SH3 Cmdr. I've been using onealex and Kaa's fatigue models, but CMM 1.1 keeps haunting me. Just not sure what it does to how Fifi approached this aspect of SH3.

But yeah, if you have an already compatible JSGME version I'd love to have that old friend, ole pal, ole kamerade o mine...

Or, if you can just answer some questions as I work my way thru it would be a kind enough gift. Much appreciate.



Here are a couple of items from the NYGM CMM 1.1 readme files which bring up questions relative to how this mod would interact with Fifi's SC v.5.


(From the CMM Crew Management - addendum doc):

"3. The default crew configurations are designed to give you the necessary crew members qualifications to run the boat properly. You will need to fill out the remaining warrant officer and seamen crew slots to get an effective operating crew. Crew configurations for the Type II, VII and IX have been reduced to more accurately reflect actual crew numbers."

(My Comment): Are they simply recommending that one needs to add crew members (Warrant and seaman)? Because then it goes on to say: "Crew configurations for the Type II, VII and IX have been reduced to more accurately reflect actual crew numbers." Okay, so which is it? Either the crew numbers have been reduced and that's how they intended it to be, or one needs to bulk up on crewman before putting to sea which seems counter-intuitive to their original intent?

"4. The basic.cfg and en_menu.txt have a number of changes not related to fatigue. The goal of these changes are to convert the reward system into a tonnage based system. Be careful when using this with existing careers. The changes necessary to create a tonnage based reward system necessitated changes to the main.cfg. The included file will need to be placed in the My Docs/SH3/data/cfg folder."

(My Comment): This then gets at the issue I alluded to above. Fifi took a bit of a different route concerning the reward system I believe. He cut down on the renown gained in certain places, like actually going to your patrol grid for 24 hrs. No criticism meant here, but I tend to like the idea of the reward system and morale being tied to tonnage as acquired/destroyed, kind of a risk/reward system. So at the 10,000 foot level, how would/will using CMM 1.1 with Fifi's SC v.5, cooperate. Or will this mess up Fifi's strategy completely? Which I hesitate to do. Perhaps I'm overthinking this?



(From the CMM Crew Management.doc):

"The helmsman qual is no longer required and has been eliminated."

(My Comment): How does this play with SC v.5?

Otherwise, with the Basic.cfg file I suppose using winmerge and comparing Fifi's Basic.cfg, and CMM's Basic.cfg, would tell me what needs changed in Fifi's file to make it compatible. But the crew.cfg files throw me a bit. Do I just replace Fifi's crew.cfg files, or use winmerg and make changes? Editing the menu_1024_768.ini file is self explanatory.

Same with the Sim.cfg file. It's a small file, simple enough. But the settings for CMM are different than Fifi's. So I'm presuming the Sim.cfg file is just replaced with the CMM Sim.cfg. But, how does that impact Fifi's settings, or does it. In other words, all I want is to make the necessary changes to work with CMM, and not alter other aspects of Fifi's settings.



And then there's those pesky Submarine/NSS_Uboatxxx.sim files that I have no clue about since I can't get S3D to cooperate to even take a peek inside.



Maybe I should have stuck with checkers.

[bweiss]

Wait a minute, should have asked this first. I was thinking, never recommended, that perhaps one can just cut and paste the NYGM CMM "Crew fatigue model.cfg", section for CMM and put it in the SH3 Cmdr "Crew fatigue models.cfg file. Would that work?


Thing is, CMM also has a "Medals and renown.cfg" in which they say the following;

"Make backups of and replace the "Crew fatigue models.cfg" and "Medals and renown.cfg" files in the SH3 Commander\Cfg folder with the provided files. No further action is necessary and the NYGM CMM will be integrated into your SH3 install when using SH3 Commander for the first time. A file has also been included to allow the selction of the NYGM CMM in the Gameplay Settings of the SH3 Commander Options screen. You may check the "Use fatigue model" box and select the "NYGM CMM" from the list of available options. This is provided as an option, however is not necessary."


Well there is no Medals and renown.cfg in the SH3/Cfg folder nor anywhere else I can find. So I would be adding a file with instructions that may or may not play well with Fifi's settings.


What happens if one only cuts and pastes the CMM fatigue model cfg file into the SH3 Cmdr "Use Fatigue Options" file? There wouldn't be any changes to Fifi's renown and rewards correct? It would just be using the CMM crew fatigue rather like kaa or GWX.
At least then one could use the CMM fatigue model without all the trimmings. Or am I wrong about that and it would end up not working correctly without the Medals and Renown.cfg file and other host of files in CMM?

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by bweiss

What happens if one only cuts and pastes the CMM fatigue model cfg file into the SH3 Cmdr "Use Fatigue Options" file? There wouldn't be any changes to Fifi's renown and rewards correct?

Correct
Remains the best option to make changes in the fatigue model … copy in a safe place original file, in case of trouble

[bweiss]

Originally Posted by Fifi

Correct
Remains the best option to make changes in the fatigue model … copy in a safe place original file, in case of trouble

Thanks Fifi, I figured that was the best solution.

[Doolar]

bweiss, I normally play with CREW FATIGUE - off. I haven't followed your post closely. What exactly will your changes bring to SH3. You have my attention and I might be interested. No hurry and thank you.

[Fifi]

You will not recognize the MFM ships in next update
They look much much better the new way:





As example, here the M06X in 2 skins
All the X models (neutrals) will have no more deck gun & AA empty platform remaining…

[FUBAR295]

Looking really nice!