[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI) - Page 102

hadan · 09-12-11, 06:46 AM

Be waiting,thanks for all your great mods

09-12-11, 09:48 AM

0rpheus · 09-19-11, 09:10 AM

Just a heads up, few threads/posts about this but it appears the Filefront link is dead.

fenrhir · 09-20-11, 03:21 AM

A little post to bump this thread.
TDW, you *have to* reupload it, as we *have to* use it, as every nice mod you've brought to us

TheDarkWraith · 09-22-11, 09:11 AM

link fixed at post #1

DoveEgg · 09-26-11, 10:12 PM

TDW, I hope this criticism is taken in the spirit in which it is intended. After playing hours of SH5 with your IRAI mod installed, I can't help but feel it is fundamentally broken. The specific problem of which I speak is that when launching an attack on escorted merchants, the destroyers seem to know your exact position as soon as the torpedos strike the target. I understand the merchant radioing that they've been torpedoed from either the port or starboard side and then the destroyers investigating that specific side, but how (the heck) do the destroyers know your exact position? It doesn't matter if your 6 km away or inside the destroyer screen. As soon as the torpedo impacts all the destroyers converge on your exact position. Does anyone else experience this? I look forward to y'all's feedback because this gameplay isn't just difficult, it's impossible and broken.

ETsd4 · 09-26-11, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoveEgg

I look forward to y'all's feedback because this gameplay isn't just difficult, it's impossible and broken.

Thank god TDW has implemented an u-boat-hunter AI that can not easily be tricked with 2 or 3 simple steps again and again. In WWII germany built 1200 u-boats and i think ca. 750 were sunk. You have to read what the u-boat-hunters were capable of => http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1499

THE_MASK · 09-27-11, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoveEgg

TDW, I hope this criticism is taken in the spirit in which it is intended. After playing hours of SH5 with your IRAI mod installed, I can't help but feel it is fundamentally broken. The specific problem of which I speak is that when launching an attack on escorted merchants, the destroyers seem to know your exact position as soon as the torpedos strike the target. I understand the merchant radioing that they've been torpedoed from either the port or starboard side and then the destroyers investigating that specific side, but how (the heck) do the destroyers know your exact position? It doesn't matter if your 6 km away or inside the destroyer screen. As soon as the torpedo impacts all the destroyers converge on your exact position. Does anyone else experience this? I look forward to y'all's feedback because this gameplay isn't just difficult, it's impossible and broken.

What Difficulty parameters do you have the non merchant AI at in the IRAI dificulty options .
C:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\MODS\IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith\data\Scripts\AI \init.aix
Uninstall from the mod enabler before editing .
I reckon try 80\90

0rpheus · 09-27-11, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoveEgg

TDW, I hope this criticism is taken in the spirit in which it is intended. After playing hours of SH5 with your IRAI mod installed, I can't help but feel it is fundamentally broken. The specific problem of which I speak is that when launching an attack on escorted merchants, the destroyers seem to know your exact position as soon as the torpedos strike the target. I understand the merchant radioing that they've been torpedoed from either the port or starboard side and then the destroyers investigating that specific side, but how (the heck) do the destroyers know your exact position? It doesn't matter if your 6 km away or inside the destroyer screen. As soon as the torpedo impacts all the destroyers converge on your exact position. Does anyone else experience this? I look forward to y'all's feedback because this gameplay isn't just difficult, it's impossible and broken.

Don't they head in the direction that the torpedoes came from and start listening? That's usually what happens when I take a shot.

The post that ETSD linked went on to say (here) that the stock 'silent running' didn't quite cut it against IRAI. Drop to Silent Running, then use the 'advanced' (hold CTRL) speed control to drop knots to 0.25 or 0.50. This keeps the engine rpm (viewable in the conning tower or engine room on dials) below 50 and makes you very difficult to hear.

Use the BOLD launcher (it works even if you don't have one on the boat for some reason) to launch decoys at periscope depth when you take a shot, then got down to 150 at flank, drop to silent, go 50 rpms and you should get away clean. If you have to turn, keep the rudder angle shallow or you'll lose momentum. The enemy will carpet the last contact area with DCs in an attempt to force you to make a move (so they can regain contact) or surface, so keep your nerve and stay quiet, risking a few seconds of flank only when directly beneath/behind them to avoid any direct hits.

And like Sober says you can change the difficulty, although with these tactics you probably won't need to.

DoveEgg · 09-27-11, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0rpheus

Don't they head in the direction that the torpedoes came from and start listening?

Not only do they head in the direction of the shot, but they head to the exact point of your boat when the shot was made. Somehow the enemy AI knows whether you made the shot from inside the destroyer screen or outside of it and then they rush to that exact point.

mobucks · 09-27-11, 10:55 AM

DoveEgg, you are forgetting step 4. After firing fish, reposition. The further out you are from the target, the longer you have to make the necessary headway. If it's nighttime, you might get away with surface/DA at flank speed, diving close to the time the first fish impacts. If you're in close, I always wait for fish to impact and then flank dive under the convoy, sometimes even staying at P depth to watch the confusion. It has worked for me. One audacious move I made vs a capital ship (forget which) was to put 4 torps into it and dive right under the sinking ship at flank speed, switching to silent running just as I passed under her. There was at least 5 angry DDs that day.

Anywho, I love IRAI, it seems to be quite dynamic. I would love to see different versions that reflect different periods of the war in terms of accurately reflecting sensor upgrades per realism, as opposed to just adjusting difficulty to harder as the war progresses.

TheDarkWraith · 09-27-11, 01:08 PM

AI is one of the hardest things to program. It's even harder when you have little to no documentation of what the functions available do/are intended to do. I have learned much about those functions from trial and error. Versions prior to v1.0.0 had an enemy AI (ship) that always knew your exact position and I tried to dumb them down with some clever coding. It works but it was just a short term solution until I figured out how to make them do what I wanted them to really do. I've accomplished this in v1.0.0. I've also greatly increased the 'brains' of the sub AI so they are more effective hunters and better at escaping/evading harm. The airplane AI has also been improved and they are better at hunting/hiding from the enemy (the airplane AI is very limited as to what one can do with it).
When is v1.0.0 available? Not sure. Still have much more work to do on it

The ship AI in v1.0.0 will be your worst nightmare if you are detected. You won't have a massive amount of ships converging on you anymore. You'll have a few but those few are very smart/clever in their tactics. The director (the one ship that sits motionless just listening/directing the others) will be top priority to remove if you want to escape/live. When the ships lose contact with you their search tactics are much more improved and there's a high probability that they will reacquire you if your evasion tactics aren't very good.

I've achieved even more randomness in the AIs behavior in v1.0.0. They don't seem so machine like anymore (not that they didn't before) - they actually appear to be thinking/plotting their next move.

When converging on a contact the ship AI will not make a straight bee-line to the contact. They will vary their couse every so often (5-20 degrees either side of the true course) so that it's hard to determine their true course for a torpedo attack.

The hunter/killer groups do their job very effectively in v1.0.0. For all intensive purposes if you're spotted by one of these you're basically dead. Gameplay will be very intense with these HK groups around.

Right now I'm trying to make the airplane AI vary their course and altitude when they are converging on a contact. This will make them very hard to take out. The other thing I'm trying to do is make airplane AI that drop bombs drop to just above the water surface when they spot a contact and pop-up to make their bomb run at the last minute. This will make for some very intense gameplay also

It takes time because I'm learning from trial and error

Sartoris · 09-28-11, 03:00 AM

That's great to hear, TDW!

mobucks · 09-28-11, 11:17 AM

Reading your posts sometimes TDW is like a drug.

09-28-11, 02:55 PM

I agree the man's a genius.
He and the modders have turned this game around so much that if UBi released it with the mods it may even receive better reviews and sell.
Sorry TDW but I really do hate to put yourself and UBi in the same sentence.

09-26-11, 10:12 PM	#1521
DoveEgg Seaman Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 40 Downloads: 138 Uploads: 0	Constructive Criticism TDW, I hope this criticism is taken in the spirit in which it is intended. After playing hours of SH5 with your IRAI mod installed, I can't help but feel it is fundamentally broken. The specific problem of which I speak is that when launching an attack on escorted merchants, the destroyers seem to know your exact position as soon as the torpedos strike the target. I understand the merchant radioing that they've been torpedoed from either the port or starboard side and then the destroyers investigating that specific side, but how (the heck) do the destroyers know your exact position? It doesn't matter if your 6 km away or inside the destroyer screen. As soon as the torpedo impacts all the destroyers converge on your exact position. Does anyone else experience this? I look forward to y'all's feedback because this gameplay isn't just difficult, it's impossible and broken.

09-12-11, 06:46 AM	#1516
hadan Nub Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Be waiting,thanks for all your great mods

09-12-11, 09:48 AM	#1517
sidslotm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:

09-19-11, 09:10 AM	#1518
0rpheus Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: UK Posts: 856 Downloads: 87 Uploads: 3	Just a heads up, few threads/posts about this but it appears the Filefront link is dead.

09-20-11, 03:21 AM	#1519
fenrhir Nub Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 3 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	A little post to bump this thread. TDW, you have to reupload it, as we have to use it, as every nice mod you've brought to us

09-22-11, 09:11 AM	#1520
TheDarkWraith Black Magic Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,962 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 5	link fixed at post #1

09-27-11, 10:55 AM	#1526
mobucks Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 713 Downloads: 209 Uploads: 0	DoveEgg, you are forgetting step 4. After firing fish, reposition. The further out you are from the target, the longer you have to make the necessary headway. If it's nighttime, you might get away with surface/DA at flank speed, diving close to the time the first fish impacts. If you're in close, I always wait for fish to impact and then flank dive under the convoy, sometimes even staying at P depth to watch the confusion. It has worked for me. One audacious move I made vs a capital ship (forget which) was to put 4 torps into it and dive right under the sinking ship at flank speed, switching to silent running just as I passed under her. There was at least 5 angry DDs that day. Anywho, I love IRAI, it seems to be quite dynamic. I would love to see different versions that reflect different periods of the war in terms of accurately reflecting sensor upgrades per realism, as opposed to just adjusting difficulty to harder as the war progresses.

09-27-11, 01:08 PM	#1527
TheDarkWraith Black Magic Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,962 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 5	AI is one of the hardest things to program. It's even harder when you have little to no documentation of what the functions available do/are intended to do. I have learned much about those functions from trial and error. Versions prior to v1.0.0 had an enemy AI (ship) that always knew your exact position and I tried to dumb them down with some clever coding. It works but it was just a short term solution until I figured out how to make them do what I wanted them to really do. I've accomplished this in v1.0.0. I've also greatly increased the 'brains' of the sub AI so they are more effective hunters and better at escaping/evading harm. The airplane AI has also been improved and they are better at hunting/hiding from the enemy (the airplane AI is very limited as to what one can do with it). When is v1.0.0 available? Not sure. Still have much more work to do on it The ship AI in v1.0.0 will be your worst nightmare if you are detected. You won't have a massive amount of ships converging on you anymore. You'll have a few but those few are very smart/clever in their tactics. The director (the one ship that sits motionless just listening/directing the others) will be top priority to remove if you want to escape/live. When the ships lose contact with you their search tactics are much more improved and there's a high probability that they will reacquire you if your evasion tactics aren't very good. I've achieved even more randomness in the AIs behavior in v1.0.0. They don't seem so machine like anymore (not that they didn't before) - they actually appear to be thinking/plotting their next move. When converging on a contact the ship AI will not make a straight bee-line to the contact. They will vary their couse every so often (5-20 degrees either side of the true course) so that it's hard to determine their true course for a torpedo attack. The hunter/killer groups do their job very effectively in v1.0.0. For all intensive purposes if you're spotted by one of these you're basically dead. Gameplay will be very intense with these HK groups around. Right now I'm trying to make the airplane AI vary their course and altitude when they are converging on a contact. This will make them very hard to take out. The other thing I'm trying to do is make airplane AI that drop bombs drop to just above the water surface when they spot a contact and pop-up to make their bomb run at the last minute. This will make for some very intense gameplay also It takes time because I'm learning from trial and error

09-28-11, 03:00 AM	#1528
Sartoris Captain Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 489 Downloads: 106 Uploads: 0	That's great to hear, TDW!

09-28-11, 11:17 AM	#1529
mobucks Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 713 Downloads: 209 Uploads: 0	Reading your posts sometimes TDW is like a drug.

09-28-11, 02:55 PM	#1530
Barso Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I agree the man's a genius. He and the modders have turned this game around so much that if UBi released it with the mods it may even receive better reviews and sell. Sorry TDW but I really do hate to put yourself and UBi in the same sentence.