LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod

[PeriscopeDepth]

I think even if you limit the AI to MAD they will still know it's a submarine and drop anywho.

[Bellman]

LuftWolf and Amizaur.

The Adcap and UGST range/speeds seem a good compromise for playability, especialy in MP.

Now with powerfull 65 wakehomers and good missile transients we have a superior mod. which will make the sim
much more playable and enjoyable.

Thanks guys - magic. ......... :|\

Bellman.

[LuftWolf]

Upon further review, I have decided to set all SAD sensors and the AI MAD sensor to -750/-30ft, to prevent subs from avoiding detection at periscope depth.

[SquidB]

Guys this mods amazing. My favourite feature is the missile launch transients. Plus the fact that my Akula now doesnt carry imaginary weapons.

(do we still get the TIW report for missiles or has that been shelved due to the persistant sonar problem?)

Anyway, I think you guys need to be clear about the objectives of all this.

I am all for a realisim mod, I think that as far as MP play balance goes SCS had its pretty bang on.

If i want a fair one on one fight ill play DW vanilla. If I want a realistic reflection of what a russian sub can or cant do then ill go with an informed mod such as this. Ill adapt my tactics accordingly, and sometimes it can be intresting in the underdog in a combat sim.

Well keep up the good work, dont worry about play balance, just try to make it as real as you can.

[Bellman]

It would be nice to have some reports back from players using the mod in MP.

I think its too early to draw any conclusions about play balance and to be fair to the modders they need feedback
to make any adjustments /trims/corrections.

PS. There are no TIWs (now/ever) in the mod.

[Mau]

Are we saying that there are no missile inbound indication anymore?
That would not be good?

[Bellman]

In the LuftAmiz mod we have much improved missile launch transients.

SquidB wrote:-

(do we still get the TIW report for missiles or has that been shelved due to the persistant sonar problem?)

We have no TIWs for missile launches in this mod.

[NastyHyena]

Originally Posted by Bellman

In the LuftAmiz mod we have much improved missile launch transients.

SquidB wrote:-

We have no TIWs for missile launches in this mod.

I think it's the way the game engine works. Anything thats a torpedo causes a TIW. ADCAPS, Skvalls, UUVs, anything that swims. I dont think it's possible to have a missile TIW, unless someone were to make a 'canister stage' that was considered a torpedo.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, would that be hard to do? We already have the launcher stange that drops the torpedo. How about a 'launch canister' that launches the missile when it hits the surface? If it's considered a torp, it should trigger a TIW.

[LuftWolf]

The game is hardcoded to give TIW messages for weapons that are listed in the DB as "torpedo" weapons.

There is no underwater missile launch warning. SCS would have to hardcode that in the game.

Thank you for your feedback and suggestions!

Anyway, I think you guys need to be clear about the objectives of all this.

From the readme:

The purpose of this mod is, straightforwardly, to address the aspects of DW gameplay that
most bother its authors, while improving the simulation experience and fixing bugs, without
introducing any new ones.

[SquidB]

The purpose of this mod is, straightforwardly, to address the aspects of DW gameplay that
most bother its authors, while improving the simulation experience and fixing bugs, without
introducing any new ones.

I should of spotted that one....

[LuftWolf]

Ok we have some things that we have to work out.

I would expect the next version within the next two weeks.

The changes involve ironing out some things with missile behavior and properly moddling the torpedos and seekers, which is something of an interesting task. :hmm:

In the mean time, I have listed all of the other db-value changes to CM's, SAD/MAD, and ADCAP/UGST in the thread, so you guys can make those changes yourself in the meantime if you want with the db editors. You could PM me if you want me to email you the "unofficial" v1.025 database.

Edit: I suppose I could post the changes with an updated readme, but I hate to bother Bill with "minor stuff"... if you guys think its important enough to distribute a new version, then you can tell me.

Additional Edit: I think we can change the submarine passive sound levels too.

[Mau]

LuftWolf coontinue your good work!!

As per the effectiveness of the Chaff and Flares (I think you put now 40%), I don't know what was the original percentage, but I would not go above 25%
It is not because I want to be ``Pickie``, It is just based on some survey, tests, reference on internet.........etc.....

Let us know the original number in the Vanilla version

Thanks
Mau

[LuftWolf]

Thanks!

In the stock DB, the effectiveness is 20%. I have heard that the modeling of their drift is less than conducive to fooling missiles, so even times when they have properly spoofed them, the missile still may hit or reacquire.

Does anyone else know about this?

[LuftWolf]

Ok, so I can keep track.

Here are the implemented changes for v1.03:

Multipurpose Torpedo Balancing:

ADCAP--Given 60kts max speed.

UGST--Given 27nm max range.

Wakehoming Torpedos--DB flags and mission priorities changed to limit use to identified surface ships (to prevent AI from firing vs. submerged contacts, you may still set the depth how you like and the torpedo will follow all wakes to target, regardless of type).

Launched Anti-Torpedo CM's--effectiveness has been changed to 33% (up from 30%, I like the neat 1/3).

Launched Anti-Missile CM's--effectivness changed to 25% (credit Mau, 25% indeed seems like a generally acceptable value and you are the one who brought up the wind thing earlier! I had thrown the 40% out as a starting point anyway...).

MAD/SAD

MAD--sensors have had max detection depth reduced from -3000ft to a realistic -1000.ft

SAD--sensors have had max detection depth reduced from -3000ft to a realistic -750ft. Minimum detection depth has been increased from -50ft to -30ft. Note: the only difference between a MAD and SAD detection in the game is the depth at which they are detected, so if I set the depths the same, the sensors would be exactly the same sensor, as the platforms only vary in MAD characteristic, and have no separate SAD characteristic).

AI MAD--AI platforms do not have a separate MAD/SAD detector. Previously, they had been set to detect from 0 to -3000ft. In order to permit realistic evasion tactics from MAD equipped AI air platforms, I have set the AI MAD sensor to have SAD chacteristics (have fun under those funky sounding cargo ships!).

To be resolved:

--The Readme will be changed to make it clear that missile transients will not produce a TIW warning (credits to Bellman and Fish).

--The two stage ss-n-27 needs to be looked at closely and may be temporarily removed until set to work completely as planned.

--Minor changes to missile doctrine to improve launch characteristics.

--Variable Torpedo seeker modeling by quality and performance.

--Submarine passive sound levels may be adjusted to more realistic levels.

I am waiting to hear back from Amizaur about a few things. We may release what we've got now as I think it is very solid and we are confident it is virtually new-bug free, except for the possible doctrine issues with two stage ss-n-27.

[Bellman]

Looking great.

Can I clarify the position now with the new wakehomeing set-up ?

Luftwolf wrote :-

(.........you may still set the depth how you like and the torpedo will follow all wakes to target, regardless of type).

'Wakes' are defined as near surface disturbance caused by surface ships or surfaced subs.
Will these guys follow and prosecute subsurface cavitating subs ? If the latter is true then the depth
setting will be critical - but how critical ? What are the vertical limits ? :hmm: