Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

What the hell is a free country?

oh please. Everything is relative alright.
But do you want to live in North Korea, China or Russia if you have the choice?
Apples and oranges?

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

No not from their leaders no. From our news source which reach more and more Russians.

They try to prevent them from getting knowledge about the war.

Even the Russians bloggers are starting to write the truth about the war.

Markus

Russian people believe nothing any more they know what is happening, but they do not trust it, so they do nothing till that one moment in the chaos but that we and even the Russian people do not know when that will happen.

[Catfish]

I did not believe it at first. France 24 no less ..

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Fair enough, yes.

The latter is because a lot of them are "disenchanted" with the result. They begin to realize they are losing. It is not because they think that war is bad, or that Putin is a reckless dictator, also being a bad statesman and an idiot.
Make no mistake, it is just because they do not win.
No idea or care about losses, no idea about who started this, no idea about their own people, humanity or caring for anyone.
They can go to HELL.

I stand corrected and say a Russian Revolution is far away.

Came to think of the latest poll from Russia where more than 80% supported Putin in his 3 days special operation in Ukraine.
Of course can these numbers be trusted ??

I say the same-They can go to Hell Putin & Co

Markus

[Skybird]

^ Yes, and it surprises me (but I will of course not complain if the parliament in Ankara does not endlessly delay it).



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66160319

But in a statement after the deal was announced, Nato said Sweden would actively support efforts to "reinvigorate Turkey's EU accession process" and this would include "modernisation of the EU-Türkiye customs union and visa liberalisation".

As I said earlier: erdoghan may aim farther in order to get what he wanted for sure: customes union and visa freedom.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Skybird

^ Yes, and it surprises me (but I will of course not complain if the parliament in Ankara does not endlessly delay it).



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66160319





As I said earlier: erdoghan may aim farther in order to get what he wanted for sure: customes union and visa freedom.

I do not know that EU membership is for real he did not want it for years now he expected the EU will give it so easy. We saw him in the past do many stuff not wordier of an EU member, he is not that stupid to think the EU will accept him without hard bargains and Greece will block this with many other members.

European and US officials were quick to signal that the two issues were not linked, but behind the scenes, it was also considered that this "doubling of the stakes" by Erdogan was a piece of bluff poker that did not necessarily mean that a compromise could not still be reached in Vilnius. According to an expert in Ankara, Erdogan's statement could also mean that he wants to return to a more pro-Western course.

[Skybird]

An earlier meeting between the heads of Turkey, Sweden and NATO ended without results.


The parliamnt in Ankara pracically does what Erdoghan wants. And it has not yet waved the Swedes through...


We do not know what Erdoghan has been given in secret. My guts just tells me he did not just fold his cards. Thats not him. He wanted to maximise his price: and suddenly he gives up...? No.


The F16s the US probaly now is delivering him, probably is not the complete price. And his economy is a mess. So I assume there is more to be revealed, regarding economics.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

An earlier meeting between the heads of Turkey, Sweden and NATO ended without results.


The parliamnt in Ankara pracically does what Erdoghan wants. And it has not yet waved the Swedes through...


We do not know what Erdoghan has been given in secret. My guts just tells me he did not just fold his cards. Thats not him. He wanted to maximise his price: and suddenly he gives up...? No.


The F16s the US probaly now is delivering him, probably is not the complete price. And his economy is a mess. So I assume there is more to be revealed, regarding economics.

Precisely

[Jimbuna]

[tonschk]

NATO NATION ERUPTS AGAINST 'KILLER ZELENSKY'; BIG PROTEST IN BULGARIA

[Skybird]

Bulgaria was one of the first - or even the first - countries delivering weapons to Ukraine via third countries.

Some days ago, the Bulgarian Parliament has adopted a statement in support of Ukraine's membership in NATO after peace has been restored on its territory. 157 MEPs from GERB-SDS, PP-DB, DPS and ITN voted in favour. 57 MPs from the BSP for Bulgaria and Vasrazhdane, an extremely pro-Russian extremist party, voted against.

A three-quarter majority.

[Catfish]

In May 2002 Putin said Ukraine was "entitled to decide on its own whether to join NATO" and that he did not see such a decision as one that would “cloud” Russian-Ukrainian relations.

[Catfish]

"Take membership off the table for Ukraine, so the argument goes, and future wars will be prevented."

Nope. This argument has two flaws, one about history and one about Putin’s thinking.
Over the last thirty years, the salience of the issue has risen and fallen not primarily due to waves of NATO expansion, but instead as a result of waves of democratic expansion in Eurasia.

In a very clear pattern, Moscow’s complaints about the alliance spike after democratic breakthroughs.
While the tragic invasions and occupations of Georgia and Ukraine have secured Putin a de facto veto over their NATO aspirations, since the alliance would never admit a country under partial occupation by Russian forces, this fact undermines Putin’s claim that the current invasion is aimed at NATO membership.

He has already blocked NATO expansion for all intents and purposes, thereby revealing that he wants something far more significant in Ukraine today:
the end of democracy and the return of subjugation.

On February 24, in an hour-long, meandering rant explaining his decision to invade, he said so directly.

https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/a...in-fears-most/

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

In May 2002 Putin said Ukraine was "entitled to decide on its own whether to join NATO" and that he did not see such a decision as one that would “cloud” Russian-Ukrainian relations.

Was that before or after the MIR space station crashed and hit him right on the head?

[Skybird]

Frankfurter Rundschau:

(...)

With the new deal, which according to Stoltenberg builds on the agreement at the NATO summit in Madrid in June 2022, Sweden is one step closer to joining NATO. But nothing is in the bag yet, because first the accession must be ratified by the Turkish parliament. And it looks like Erdogan is keeping a back door open here. Shortly before leaving for Vilnius on Monday, he told journalists, "Without a decision from parliament, we can't do anything either."

He referred to statements from the United States with regard to the debate over the sale of F-16 fighter jets to Turkey. "What do they always tell us? 'Congress has to pass it.' If they have their Congress, then we have our Grand National Assembly," the Turkish president said. "As long as it is not passed by the parliament, we cannot just say we will do it," he clarified.

For many in Turkey, Erdogan's statement and his emphasis on parliament came as a surprise, as no such statement had been made at any time in Finland's case. Mind you, Erdogan's alliance retains a majority in the Turkish parliament. Behind the scenes, he could commit his alliance to oppose Swedish NATO membership in parliament. Moreover, if the parliament fails, he could justify the continued blockade more easily.
(...)