Here we go again-Ukraine once again - Page 765

Jimbuna · 06-22-23, 12:55 PM

Russians living in occupied Crimea have been told to flee the area after Vladimir Putin recently escalated nuclear tensions by saying nuclear warheads are ready for use.

Oleksiy Danilov, Kyiv's national security and defence council (NSDC) secretary, has advised any Russians living there to flee to their home country, saying they are not permitted refuge in Ukraine.

mapuc · 06-22-23, 01:25 PM

Quote:

His argument goes like this. In order to "break the West's will", Russia "will have to make nuclear deterrence a convincing argument again by lowering the threshold for the use of nuclear weapons".

"The enemy must know that we are ready to deliver a pre-emptive strike in retaliation for all of its current and past acts of aggression in order to prevent a slide into global thermonuclear war.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65976256

Reading Jim's latest comment and this article I fear it may become real in a near future.

Markus

Jimbuna · 06-22-23, 01:41 PM

Hopefully there are those within his country who will oppose such action.

Catfish · 06-22-23, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Hopefully there are those within his country who will oppose such action.

Unlikely. I take it to stop all this it needs some action like the Truman doctrine in 1947. "You stop this or there will be war."

Meanwhile

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/statu...38891974250497

A normal day in RuSSia.

Rockstar · 06-22-23, 04:22 PM

Cant remember who said it but the higher up mucky-mucks have already said a tit for tat use of nuclear options would not necessarily be our first response. They’ve stressed they could launch a massive and devastating conventional response against Russia that would lay it to waste.

Russians should keep in mind too if push comes to shove and they push that nuclear option button. Then everything they ever loved and held dear would in one big bright flash cease to exist

mapuc · 06-22-23, 04:32 PM

^ It depends on where you live. No doubt that even I who live far from some major city are in danger from getting sick from radiation

Back to the Article I posted earlier

The threat of using nukes could also be a sign of despair. They are being pressed up in a corner and now they show teeth.
But I fear that the dog soon will try to bite

Markus

Skybird · 06-22-23, 06:20 PM

Its the simple, brutal and only reaction pattern Putin - and with him many Russians in their state "elite" - knows: if being pushed, push back harder. If they dont break, kick harder. If they resist or threaten you, escalate.

Giving up, retreat, is a sign of weakness in their mental world. Russia is all Marvel heroes united in one country. Weakness gets you killed. Therefore, giving up, retreating, is no option. Means: Putin will carry on, no matter what the West does. He has no altentrtaives to ensure his biolgical survival at home, and he doe snto know any other mental attitude: Escalate. If they resits, escalate more. Always more, always more, brtuality knows no upward limits, so more, until they are too scared. Winning is guaranteed. It only takes time.

Its the simple logic of completely unscrupolous brutality. Somebody once said Putin in principle is a backyard thug who pops up in front of you on the street when the sun has set and coldy, politely asks you for your watch and money, and when you say no, he beats you up that you end up being closer to death than life, if you even survive it, then takes the watch and money from your motionless body, and walks back into the darkness of the backyards where his gang of thugs resides.

If we want not to lose Ukraine or see it getting agriculturally and economically and industrially completely destroyed, then WE must escalate and give the Russians more pain than they believe could exist. And we must convince them by our unscared deeds and attacks that we are not afraid to attack them on their own soil and do not fear nuclear weapons. We must do the oppposite of what they expect from us. So far we just justify their perception of the West. If we act "reasonably" and with modesty like until here, Putin will know that if only he escalates far enough, we will shy away in the end and give up and then he always winds, becasue he is nwilkign to escalate further than we are. He is willing to escalate further than we would, in his perception, and that perception obviously is correct. Thats why I am pessimistic about Ukraine. Currently, I see them and us all loosing. And it creates a precedence. The next war some years after the Ukraine war has ended in any way, imo is just a question of some years, 10 years and not so much more than that.

That is a bitter situation we are in: we must accept the risk of nuclear attacks, and we must be willing to retaliate. We are afraid of that, but so far we let this fear command our deeds and define our limits of deeds. Add to that the de facto military impotence of practically all European militaries. That includes Britain and France.

Nobody will like what my advise is. Nor do I ike it, but I follow the logic of what I said above to its consistent end. I cannot do it differently, thats how I tick. Its also reflected in my real life biography.

We must show that we are willing to escalate to nuclear weapons use first.

And after we have said it, we must indeed do it, we must niot want to avoid it, but we must demostrate it. Not waiting for an oppurtnity, but we must strike offensively, one or two weapons. We must create a staged cause if there is no real one, and then blow it up, nothing that threatens Russian cities already, but something that really deeply hurts their military, preferred is it is linked to the war in Ukraine. We must turn Putins own logic against him - and we must be brutal. Their shall be no doubt on how brutal and nasty and dirty we can be. That, and nothing else, is the meaning of "deterrance".

I told you, nobody will like what I say.

There is one episode in this - awful! - new Star Trek series (I hate it and do not watch it). The episode is called "The Vulcan Hello". It makes a reference to the first meeting of a Vulcan and Klingon ship. The Vulcans analysed the warrior culture of the Klingons and concluded the onyl way to not gettign invoilved in a big war with them was to send them a special Hello. They opened fire and immediaely destroyed the Klingon ship durign first contact, without further warning. There was no war in the aftermath between Viulcans and Klingons.

Fiction, and science fiction, but think of it. There is truth in it.

Consider the many unspeakable crimes against humanity the Russians have committed in the past 25 years, in syria, Chechnya, Ukraine. Them any posnings and assassinations. The torture in their prisons. And then tell me you believe you could impress a man, a state who accepts to do these things of horror, with reason, with mindful wording, with carefully selected verbal warnings! Scaled sanctions, and all these civilised oh so caring things! 16 months of war. Putin gives sh!t.

Get a thick leather glove, a big one, and play dirty, put a horse shoe into it, and when Putin tells you he is willing to talk, walk uo to him and without hesitation without warning slam your fist into his mouth as strong as you can and with intetion to kill. Murderous thugs like Putin will even then not understand Vulcan Hellos, because they will be dead. But their minions taking over then will remember it and understand the meaning of the Vulcan Hello.

Needless to say, from then on you have to be on your guard against Russia, at all times. Here is the reaosn why we will not do this, and thus accept Ukraine to get destroyed: we are too weak. Materially, and psychologically. And America cannot control a conflict with Russia and China at the same time. Thats why ti chooses to instead slowy boil the frog - att eh cost and at the loss of Ukraine. I do not see the American help and atottude as heroic - far from it! But then, I do not applaude the European generlal attitude either.

---------------

On a sidenote, China has agreed to join several boycotts targetting Russian banks. I find the timing interesting, it comes after the Kremlin went into verbal berserk mode once again and threatend nuclear attacks on NATO. My guts feelign says its not just a Chinese trick, but that they send a serious warning this way. I only doubt that backyard thug Putin cares.

mapuc · 06-23-23, 02:37 AM

This cartoon is true and it shows why we shall keep on supporting them.

https://twitter.com/ukraine_map/stat...17311631396865

Markus

Jimbuna · 06-23-23, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Unlikely. I take it to stop all this it needs some action like the Truman doctrine in 1947. "You stop this or there will be war."

Meanwhile

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/statu...38891974250497

A normal day in RuSSia.

I bet he's a right charmer to invite around for a cuppa

Jimbuna · 06-23-23, 05:19 AM

mapuc · 06-23-23, 05:33 AM

As Denys mention in this video ^ Russia have placed mines around the reactors at the powerplant and around the pond which water is used to cool the reactors.

Made me think, Putin don't have to use tactical nukes, blowing up the plant and the entire Ukraine will be wasteland for generation ahead

There's no doubt in my mind that if Putin gives the order-NATO will react.
How !? I don't know.

Markus

Jimbuna · 06-23-23, 05:37 AM

Reece · 06-23-23, 06:30 AM

Putin wants to commit suicide and take his country down with him!

What a nut job!!

Jimbuna · 06-23-23, 06:33 AM

mapuc · 06-23-23, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

Putin wants to commit suicide and take his country down with him!

What a nut job!!

Sadly it would be every country in Europe who would be affected if Putin use nukes or blow up the Nuclear powerplant

This is the easy plan

Most likely it would be a lot worse.

But as Jim wrote earlier-Hopefully there's some who will eliminate Putin before he press the button

Markus

06-22-23, 12:55 PM	#11461
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,457 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Russians living in occupied Crimea have been told to flee the area after Vladimir Putin recently escalated nuclear tensions by saying nuclear warheads are ready for use. Oleksiy Danilov, Kyiv's national security and defence council (NSDC) secretary, has advised any Russians living there to flee to their home country, saying they are not permitted refuge in Ukraine. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-22-23, 01:41 PM	#11463
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,457 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Hopefully there are those within his country who will oppose such action. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-22-23, 04:22 PM	#11465
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,969 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Cant remember who said it but the higher up mucky-mucks have already said a tit for tat use of nuclear options would not necessarily be our first response. They’ve stressed they could launch a massive and devastating conventional response against Russia that would lay it to waste. Russians should keep in mind too if push comes to shove and they push that nuclear option button. Then everything they ever loved and held dear would in one big bright flash cease to exist __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.

06-22-23, 04:32 PM	#11466
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,145 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	^ It depends on where you live. No doubt that even I who live far from some major city are in danger from getting sick from radiation Back to the Article I posted earlier The threat of using nukes could also be a sign of despair. They are being pressed up in a corner and now they show teeth. But I fear that the dog soon will try to bite Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

06-22-23, 06:20 PM	#11467
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,664 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Its the simple, brutal and only reaction pattern Putin - and with him many Russians in their state "elite" - knows: if being pushed, push back harder. If they dont break, kick harder. If they resist or threaten you, escalate. Giving up, retreat, is a sign of weakness in their mental world. Russia is all Marvel heroes united in one country. Weakness gets you killed. Therefore, giving up, retreating, is no option. Means: Putin will carry on, no matter what the West does. He has no altentrtaives to ensure his biolgical survival at home, and he doe snto know any other mental attitude: Escalate. If they resits, escalate more. Always more, always more, brtuality knows no upward limits, so more, until they are too scared. Winning is guaranteed. It only takes time. Its the simple logic of completely unscrupolous brutality. Somebody once said Putin in principle is a backyard thug who pops up in front of you on the street when the sun has set and coldy, politely asks you for your watch and money, and when you say no, he beats you up that you end up being closer to death than life, if you even survive it, then takes the watch and money from your motionless body, and walks back into the darkness of the backyards where his gang of thugs resides. If we want not to lose Ukraine or see it getting agriculturally and economically and industrially completely destroyed, then WE must escalate and give the Russians more pain than they believe could exist. And we must convince them by our unscared deeds and attacks that we are not afraid to attack them on their own soil and do not fear nuclear weapons. We must do the oppposite of what they expect from us. So far we just justify their perception of the West. If we act "reasonably" and with modesty like until here, Putin will know that if only he escalates far enough, we will shy away in the end and give up and then he always winds, becasue he is nwilkign to escalate further than we are. He is willing to escalate further than we would, in his perception, and that perception obviously is correct. Thats why I am pessimistic about Ukraine. Currently, I see them and us all loosing. And it creates a precedence. The next war some years after the Ukraine war has ended in any way, imo is just a question of some years, 10 years and not so much more than that. That is a bitter situation we are in: we must accept the risk of nuclear attacks, and we must be willing to retaliate. We are afraid of that, but so far we let this fear command our deeds and define our limits of deeds. Add to that the de facto military impotence of practically all European militaries. That includes Britain and France. Nobody will like what my advise is. Nor do I ike it, but I follow the logic of what I said above to its consistent end. I cannot do it differently, thats how I tick. Its also reflected in my real life biography. We must show that we are willing to escalate to nuclear weapons use first. And after we have said it, we must indeed do it, we must niot want to avoid it, but we must demostrate it. Not waiting for an oppurtnity, but we must strike offensively, one or two weapons. We must create a staged cause if there is no real one, and then blow it up, nothing that threatens Russian cities already, but something that really deeply hurts their military, preferred is it is linked to the war in Ukraine. We must turn Putins own logic against him - and we must be brutal. Their shall be no doubt on how brutal and nasty and dirty we can be. That, and nothing else, is the meaning of "deterrance". I told you, nobody will like what I say. There is one episode in this - awful! - new Star Trek series (I hate it and do not watch it). The episode is called "The Vulcan Hello". It makes a reference to the first meeting of a Vulcan and Klingon ship. The Vulcans analysed the warrior culture of the Klingons and concluded the onyl way to not gettign invoilved in a big war with them was to send them a special Hello. They opened fire and immediaely destroyed the Klingon ship durign first contact, without further warning. There was no war in the aftermath between Viulcans and Klingons. Fiction, and science fiction, but think of it. There is truth in it. Consider the many unspeakable crimes against humanity the Russians have committed in the past 25 years, in syria, Chechnya, Ukraine. Them any posnings and assassinations. The torture in their prisons. And then tell me you believe you could impress a man, a state who accepts to do these things of horror, with reason, with mindful wording, with carefully selected verbal warnings! Scaled sanctions, and all these civilised oh so caring things! 16 months of war. Putin gives sh!t. Get a thick leather glove, a big one, and play dirty, put a horse shoe into it, and when Putin tells you he is willing to talk, walk uo to him and without hesitation without warning slam your fist into his mouth as strong as you can and with intetion to kill. Murderous thugs like Putin will even then not understand Vulcan Hellos, because they will be dead. But their minions taking over then will remember it and understand the meaning of the Vulcan Hello. Needless to say, from then on you have to be on your guard against Russia, at all times. Here is the reaosn why we will not do this, and thus accept Ukraine to get destroyed: we are too weak. Materially, and psychologically. And America cannot control a conflict with Russia and China at the same time. Thats why ti chooses to instead slowy boil the frog - att eh cost and at the loss of Ukraine. I do not see the American help and atottude as heroic - far from it! But then, I do not applaude the European generlal attitude either. --------------- On a sidenote, China has agreed to join several boycotts targetting Russian banks. I find the timing interesting, it comes after the Kremlin went into verbal berserk mode once again and threatend nuclear attacks on NATO. My guts feelign says its not just a Chinese trick, but that they send a serious warning this way. I only doubt that backyard thug Putin cares. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-23-23, 02:37 AM	#11468
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,145 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	This cartoon is true and it shows why we shall keep on supporting them. https://twitter.com/ukraine_map/stat...17311631396865 Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

06-23-23, 05:19 AM	#11470
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,457 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-23-23, 05:33 AM	#11471
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,145 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	As Denys mention in this video ^ Russia have placed mines around the reactors at the powerplant and around the pond which water is used to cool the reactors. Made me think, Putin don't have to use tactical nukes, blowing up the plant and the entire Ukraine will be wasteland for generation ahead There's no doubt in my mind that if Putin gives the order-NATO will react. How !? I don't know. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

06-23-23, 05:37 AM	#11472
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,457 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-23-23, 06:30 AM	#11473
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 32,842 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Putin wants to commit suicide and take his country down with him! What a nut job!! __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

06-23-23, 06:33 AM	#11474
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,457 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)