Here we go again-Ukraine once again - Page 690

Jimbuna · 03-15-23, 09:42 AM

I think they'll be well aware of the limitations but remain very happy to have better and more modern means available to themselves.

Skybird · 03-15-23, 11:11 AM

In WW2, after the Allied invasion in Europe there was an order in place for some time that American Shermans only shall attack a German Tiger if they have a numerical superiority of I think 7:1, or was it 12:1? Lets see how it will be with the Challengers and Leopards.

Problem is, the Ukraine is not too likely to get replacements soon if they loose them. And they will loose some of them. And the more time passes, the more these tanks, like all equipment in war, will be brought down by wear and tear.

--------------------

Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung
Russia wants to find and recover the U.S. drone that crashed in the Black Sea. "I don't know if we will be able to do that. But it has to be done. I hope for success, of course," National Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev told Russian state television on Wednesday. While the U.S. would always stress that it is not a party to the war, the case shows its involvement in the fighting, he said. "This is another confirmation that they are directly involved in these actions, in the war," Patrushev said.

Jimbuna · 03-15-23, 11:14 AM

Vladimir Putin is expected to attend the G20 summit in India this September after Kremlin aides cleared the despot's schedule to accommodate for the event.

Jimbuna · 03-15-23, 11:28 AM

The Kremlin said on Wednesday that relations with the United States were in a "lamentable state" and at their lowest level, after Washington accused Russia of downing one of its reconnaissance drones over the Black Sea.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...35c43da7&ei=12

Jimbuna · 03-15-23, 11:45 AM

The Russians are going to try and recover whatever is left of the drone but it is in very deep water.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64961958

Catfish · 03-15-23, 12:32 PM

I know (and i even have a screenshot from flight radar at this day) the drone was flying in international airspace with its transponder turned on. -> Otherwise it would not have been visible in FR24.
Reapers are flying around the Black Sea since decades, always with their transponder activated.

Russian jets tried to hamper it dropping fuel in its flight path, and then even rammed the drone from behind so its push propeller was damaged in a way the drone had to make an emergency landing in the sea.
All this happening in international airspace and waters.
They could as well have used a missile or some gun with the same effect.

"Unfriendly" does not quite describe this.
Obviously an attempt by the Kremlin to test the response of the United States.
And now Russia wants to retrieve it?

Apart from the US rescuing the drone, I foresee some further US action, preferably not made public.

August · 03-15-23, 01:41 PM

I say the next time they try bumping one of our drones out of the sky we should accidentally kamikaze it into the enemy jet and hopefully bring it down. Maybe add a few pounds of explosives in the drone just for effect. Then send them a nice note:

"Oops sorry that you lost your fighter and it's pilot. We tried everything we could to avoid the accident. Here's a bouquet of flowers for the pilots funeral along with our sincere regrets."

Dargo · 03-15-23, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I say the next time they try bumping one of our drones out of the sky we should accidentally kamikaze it into the enemy jet and hopefully bring it down. Maybe add a few pounds of explosives in the drone just for effect. Then send them a nice note:

"Oops sorry that you lost your fighter and it's pilot. We tried everything we could to avoid the accident. Here's a bouquet of flowers for the pilots funeral along with our sincere regrets."

MQ-9 Reaper Is Capable Of Defending Itself With Air-To-Air Missiles https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...o-air-missiles

Jimbuna · 03-15-23, 02:12 PM

Just checked to find mine still safe in the display cabinet.

Jimbuna · 03-15-23, 02:23 PM

Quote:

A Russian aircraft was intercepted by RAF and German fighter jets near Estonian airspace in the first joint exercise between the two Nato allies.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...9ebaef0e&ei=16

Just a pity we didn't shoot it down

Skybird · 03-15-23, 02:43 PM

US TV showed animations of the incident that tell it slightly different than you do, Catfish. The Russian jets seem to repeatedly have approached the drone from underneath and from its rear in sort of fly-bys, and then climbed from under its belly and in front of its nose, while dumping fuel to spread it over it. During one of these manouvers, the russian plane seems to have not kept the safe distance or pulled too early, and thus accidentally got the vertical stabilizer' top into the propeller of the drone that then was located over it.

The drone was said to have successfully deleted all software it had in its electronics active, and to delete all its memories and data, when it became clear that the damaged propeller prevented to manouver the drone. I assume this action was what then inevitably made the drone crashing, since the steering software and evertyhign had been deleted.

Possible also that the drone immedoiately lost steerrign controlled, and went into a fall-down during which the data deletion procedures were initiated.

The russian plane thus probably also was damaged, lightly at least. The top end(s) of its vertical stabilizers probably got more than just scratches if the propeller tried to shredder these top ends. Not that i would shed a tear about it.

So, the Russians wanted to down the drone by dumping fuel on it, maybe hoping it would somehow go up in flames, or the kerosin entering the inside, doing any form of damage, or interacting with the air inlets, maybe destabilizing it by changign the air density around it and reducing it slift when fogging the air with kerosin (no idea I have whether that is physically possible, I imagine this scenario only). But they probably had no intention to collide with the drone, risking their own plane that way.

That all means there is the drone at the bottom of the sea, with all its electronics secrets, but probably no usable software code. I wonder what value, intel-wise, the electronics have without code? Anyone knowing that?

The Black Sea, says Wikipedia, has an average depth of 1250m and at its deepest point is 2200+ m deep. I think stuff has already been extracted from greater depths, or am I wrong?

The US could send a civilian expedition, or ask Romania, Turkey or Bulgaria for assistance.

Turkey I would not ask. Its unhelpful style to owe them a favour with behaviours like their recent ones. Whether Romania or Bulgaria are eager and have the nerves to take on the Russian navy, I have no idea.

Skybird · 03-15-23, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Just a pity we didn't shoot it down

I think the German and the British pilots just mistook the Russian plane for each other but were too excited to find the trigger.

Jimbuna · 03-15-23, 03:00 PM

Ukraine has invited Florida Governor Ron DeSantis to visit, after the Republican dismissed the Russian invasion as a "territorial dispute".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64880145

Catfish · 03-16-23, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Just checked to find mine still safe in the display cabinet.

]

Just keep your russian fighter models away from it ..

Reece · 03-16-23, 04:22 AM

Oh he burnt those!!

03-15-23, 09:42 AM	#10336
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,445 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I think they'll be well aware of the limitations but remain very happy to have better and more modern means available to themselves. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

03-15-23, 11:11 AM	#10337
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,663 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	In WW2, after the Allied invasion in Europe there was an order in place for some time that American Shermans only shall attack a German Tiger if they have a numerical superiority of I think 7:1, or was it 12:1? Lets see how it will be with the Challengers and Leopards. Problem is, the Ukraine is not too likely to get replacements soon if they loose them. And they will loose some of them. And the more time passes, the more these tanks, like all equipment in war, will be brought down by wear and tear. -------------------- Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung Russia wants to find and recover the U.S. drone that crashed in the Black Sea. "I don't know if we will be able to do that. But it has to be done. I hope for success, of course," National Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev told Russian state television on Wednesday. While the U.S. would always stress that it is not a party to the war, the case shows its involvement in the fighting, he said. "This is another confirmation that they are directly involved in these actions, in the war," Patrushev said. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 03-15-23 at 11:20 AM.

03-15-23, 11:14 AM	#10338
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,445 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Vladimir Putin is expected to attend the G20 summit in India this September after Kremlin aides cleared the despot's schedule to accommodate for the event. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

03-15-23, 11:28 AM	#10339
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,445 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The Kremlin said on Wednesday that relations with the United States were in a "lamentable state" and at their lowest level, after Washington accused Russia of downing one of its reconnaissance drones over the Black Sea. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...35c43da7&ei=12 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

03-15-23, 11:45 AM	#10340
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,445 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The Russians are going to try and recover whatever is left of the drone but it is in very deep water. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64961958 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

03-15-23, 12:32 PM	#10341
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,909 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I know (and i even have a screenshot from flight radar at this day) the drone was flying in international airspace with its transponder turned on. -> Otherwise it would not have been visible in FR24. Reapers are flying around the Black Sea since decades, always with their transponder activated. Russian jets tried to hamper it dropping fuel in its flight path, and then even rammed the drone from behind so its push propeller was damaged in a way the drone had to make an emergency landing in the sea. All this happening in international airspace and waters. They could as well have used a missile or some gun with the same effect. "Unfriendly" does not quite describe this. Obviously an attempt by the Kremlin to test the response of the United States. And now Russia wants to retrieve it? Apart from the US rescuing the drone, I foresee some further US action, preferably not made public. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 03-15-23 at 12:41 PM.*

03-15-23, 01:41 PM	#10342
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 22,724 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I say the next time they try bumping one of our drones out of the sky we should accidentally kamikaze it into the enemy jet and hopefully bring it down. Maybe add a few pounds of explosives in the drone just for effect. Then send them a nice note: "Oops sorry that you lost your fighter and it's pilot. We tried everything we could to avoid the accident. Here's a bouquet of flowers for the pilots funeral along with our sincere regrets." __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

03-15-23, 02:12 PM	#10344
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,445 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Just checked to find mine still safe in the display cabinet. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

03-15-23, 02:43 PM	#10346
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,663 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	US TV showed animations of the incident that tell it slightly different than you do, Catfish. The Russian jets seem to repeatedly have approached the drone from underneath and from its rear in sort of fly-bys, and then climbed from under its belly and in front of its nose, while dumping fuel to spread it over it. During one of these manouvers, the russian plane seems to have not kept the safe distance or pulled too early, and thus accidentally got the vertical stabilizer' top into the propeller of the drone that then was located over it. The drone was said to have successfully deleted all software it had in its electronics active, and to delete all its memories and data, when it became clear that the damaged propeller prevented to manouver the drone. I assume this action was what then inevitably made the drone crashing, since the steering software and evertyhign had been deleted. Possible also that the drone immedoiately lost steerrign controlled, and went into a fall-down during which the data deletion procedures were initiated. The russian plane thus probably also was damaged, lightly at least. The top end(s) of its vertical stabilizers probably got more than just scratches if the propeller tried to shredder these top ends. Not that i would shed a tear about it. So, the Russians wanted to down the drone by dumping fuel on it, maybe hoping it would somehow go up in flames, or the kerosin entering the inside, doing any form of damage, or interacting with the air inlets, maybe destabilizing it by changign the air density around it and reducing it slift when fogging the air with kerosin (no idea I have whether that is physically possible, I imagine this scenario only). But they probably had no intention to collide with the drone, risking their own plane that way. That all means there is the drone at the bottom of the sea, with all its electronics secrets, but probably no usable software code. I wonder what value, intel-wise, the electronics have without code? Anyone knowing that? The Black Sea, says Wikipedia, has an average depth of 1250m and at its deepest point is 2200+ m deep. I think stuff has already been extracted from greater depths, or am I wrong? The US could send a civilian expedition, or ask Romania, Turkey or Bulgaria for assistance. Turkey I would not ask. Its unhelpful style to owe them a favour with behaviours like their recent ones. Whether Romania or Bulgaria are eager and have the nerves to take on the Russian navy, I have no idea. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-15-23, 03:00 PM	#10348
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,445 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Ukraine has invited Florida Governor Ron DeSantis to visit, after the Republican dismissed the Russian invasion as a "territorial dispute". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64880145 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

03-16-23, 04:22 AM	#10350
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 32,842 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Oh he burnt those!! __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*