[WIP] U-Boat Killer AI Mod

[Fattysbox]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Yeah it does matter.

As you have got a 'data' folder, that's a warning sign that it's not correct. Either put the data folder inside another folder yourself, or right click and extract to U-Boat Killer Mod v 1.02\.

Ok, So I made a new folder with a new name and moved the data folder into that. Activated via JGSME.

On a side note, there have been so many mods with different installation patterns and conflicts/merging that there really needs to be a supermod.
Your AI mod should included in this as well

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by lumat83

Maybe your mod has the same effect ? If not, is it possible to use the 2 mods ? Or include in your this effect ?

Hi Luc, sorry for the lack of reply. In stock, ships will stop and 'abandon ship' at a certain damage percentage. What I wanted to do was to have them to stop, inspect damage and then start up again, as came to light in this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ssment+control

I'll add it in at some point, but it's not as easy to get them to start up again as I'd like.

Originally Posted by Gandalfi2005

If im right Nisgeis have fixed the 1/3 ahead issue too and additionally have the Spiral Search implemented correctly.

Yep, there are a number opf other changes as well, to the decisions they make and also a proportional response set up (not great at the moment) and a few other things to make them respond.

[Nisgeis]

So, there have been about 450 downloads of this beta version so far and only a few people have very kindly given feedback, so I'm going to take it that there are no major problems with it and nothing drastic is wrong, so I can mark it as stable and release it. Unless anyone has anything to say, I shall do that soon.

[Heretic]

I really liked the AI aspects of it. I thought the depth charge changes were a bit off. I dunno if you were planning to include DC changes in an AI mod or if that should be a stand-alone. The stock settings definitely have too small radius. They really require a direct hit to hurt the boat.

I experimented with the DC settings and came up with some that I liked.
explosion_range - upped 50% from 40 to 60 to jar the boat from further away. I don't think this setting effects damage.

I upped MinRadius from 2 to 6 and MaxRadius from 4 to 30. I think these values are in meters. According to Wikipedia, a Brit DC could kill a sub at 6 meters and do serious damage at up to twice that. Testing showed some pretty could results from this. A comprehensive overhaul of damage, repair, and weapons would really be needed to set up everything properly.

[Nisgeis]

Which version do you have? I have changed the DCs from 2 to 4 (I think) and also upped the MaxRadius, as I kept getting perfect DC runs with perfect placement and no damage at all.

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Which version do you have? I have changed the DCs from 2 to 4 (I think) and also upped the MaxRadius, as I kept getting perfect DC runs with perfect placement and no damage at all.

I'm sorry. No idea what the heck I was thinking your changes were. For some reason, I thought you had max radius real high. Your changes are very similar to mine.
Stock

amun_depth_charge
fall_speed 3
detonate_depth 25
depth_precision 5
explosion_range 40
explosion_impulse 1000

AmmoDamageInfo
MinEF 50
MaxEF 100
AP 20
MinRadius 2
MaxRadius 4

Yours

amun_depth_charge
fall_speed 3
detonate_depth 25
depth_precision 5
explosion_range 40
explosion_impulse 1000

AmmoDamageInfo
MinEF 50
MaxEF 100
AP 20
MinRadius 5
MaxRadius 40

My fiddlings

amun_depth_charge
fall_speed 3
detonate_depth 25
depth_precision 5
explosion_range 60
explosion_impulse 1000

AmmoDamageInfo
MinEF 50
MaxEF 100
AP 20
MinRadius 6
MaxRadius 30

[Nisgeis]

OK, that's good, as long as there is nothing wrong. Thanks for flagging it up as a potential problem .

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

OK, that's good, as long as there is nothing wrong. Thanks for flagging it up as a potential problem .

Nisgeis, I have your mod installed but have not run into any escorts yet so cannot comment on your mod.

I do have a comment on the the DC settings though, MaxRadius=40 or even =30 seems high, if that is in meters.

Info I have seen on depth charges show that the maximum distance at which a DC could cause damage to a U-Boat was generally 12 meters for early war DCs and 15 meters for late war DCs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_charge

http://www.uboat.net/allies/technical/depth_charges.htm

commenting on the stock game settings, and I am just guessing here, could it be that those numbers were used because escorts tend to be more accurate and drop more charges in game than they would in RL?

I also have another question on the damage, I see the setting is min=50, max=100. A typical Royal Navy MK.VII DC packs a 130 kg warhead.

A typical German torpedo packs a 280 kg warhead and has a min=120, max=180 damage rating and a min=3, max=7 damage radius.

I dont know what it means, but I find it interesting that the max damage rating of the DC (100) is proportionately larger than the max damage rating of the torp (180, instead of 215?). Logically, it should be the same or lower since the DC will almost always detonate farther away from the target than a torpedo.

[The General]

Fantastic Mod, suprised I haven't known about this 'til now, will try when I get home. One question. In all versions of Silent Hunter it has always suprised me that Surface vessels don't respond to seeing a periscope like I thought they would. Shouldn't they immedietly start DC'ing the area and even call their buddies over to join the party? Sure, they fire a few rounds, but once you lower your 'Scope they just continue on their merry way like they never saw a thing! Surely one of the fundamentals of Sub warfare?

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Nisgeis, I have your mod installed but have not run into any escorts yet so cannot comment on your mod.

I do have a comment on the the DC settings though, MaxRadius=40 or even =30 seems high, if that is in meters.

It is in metres, yes, but it's not quite that simple. Let's say you have a depth charge that in game causes '100 damage units' whatever they are. If that DC explodes within zero metres out to MinRadius, then the full 100 damage points are used in the following calculation of damage. If the DC explodes at MaxRadius metres, then there is no damage. Anywhere in between Min and Max means the damage used is linearly interpolated, so half way between the Min and Max (if min 2 and max 40, then halfway would be 21 metres out from the sub) then falf the damage is used, e.g. 50 damage units.

Now, then the game takes into account the armour class of the thing you are hitting and that reduces the damage as well. If the damage is reduced enough by the armour, then no damage is done. So, when a DC explodes close but not near, then there's no damage to the pressure hull as it's too strong, but the equipment inside can be damaged. But the equipment itself can be assigned armour values as well and indeed have them, so the damage radius isn't the full story.

Sorry for the long winded explanation.

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Info I have seen on depth charges show that the maximum distance at which a DC could cause damage to a U-Boat was generally 12 meters for early war DCs and 15 meters for late war DCs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_charge

http://www.uboat.net/allies/technical/depth_charges.htm

commenting on the stock game settings, and I am just guessing here, could it be that those numbers were used because escorts tend to be more accurate and drop more charges in game than they would in RL?

The AI is a bit, er, limitted, when it comes to dropping the DCs. The way they drop a depth charge pattern is pre-determined sort of, in a way that makes it tricky to adjust. So, what they will usually do is drop a DC way behind you, e.g. a hundred or so metres before the 'contact' and then wait whilst they pass directly overhead and drop another a long way in front of the contact. I haven't looked at how the racks are arranged in the game, but the pattern they drop is probably some function of the reload times of the racks and other things. Anyway, this limits their chance to get a 'dead on' depth charge. In stock, the DCs have such a tiny damage radius that even when they search and find you, they don't do any damage to you at all. This problem is especially apparent if you are 90 degrees to the destroyers attack you, as the DCs will be miles from you. If they pass in line with you, they are more likely to drop DCs close to your stern and bow, but still a way off.

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

I also have another question on the damage, I see the setting is min=50, max=100. A typical Royal Navy MK.VII DC packs a 130 kg warhead.

A typical German torpedo packs a 280 kg warhead and has a min=120, max=180 damage rating and a min=3, max=7 damage radius.

I dont know what it means, but I find it interesting that the max damage rating of the DC (100) is proportionately larger than the max damage rating of the torp (180, instead of 215?). Logically, it should be the same or lower since the DC will almost always detonate farther away from the target than a torpedo.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand - '100 is proportionally larger than 180'? I think I'm missing something.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by The General

Shouldn't they immedietly start DC'ing the area and even call their buddies over to join the party?

Try the mod, see what happens.

[7thSeal]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Try the mod, see what happens.

Lol, isn't that the truth... run for deeper water if available, otherwise get ready for a booom or two.

[Bilge_Rat]

thanks for the explanation, maybe I should just try it first and comment after.

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand - '100 is proportionally larger than 180'? I think I'm missing something.

no, I meant the torpedo warhead is 280 kg vs 130 kg for the DC, which works out to 2.15:1, whereas the max damage rating for torp vs DC is 180 v 100 or 1.8:1, which means that 1 kg of explosive in the DC packs potentially more punch than 1 kg of explosive in the torp warhead, its close, but there is still a discrepancy.

nothing to do with your mod, since it is the stock settings. Unlike SH3/4, where I relied on our great modders, I am trying to make more of an effort to understand the nuts and bolts of the game this time around.

[Nisgeis]

Oh I see. I've no idea. It could be that the armour of the ships is differently strutured to the armour of subs. Or it could be that the HP of ships is set differently to the subs. There are many screwy things with damage models in the past series, I wouldn't like to guess why it's like that.

[The General]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Try the mod, see what happens.

...And that's just what I did.

I reloaded my Campaign in which I was on my way home from the Western Approaches. Roughly 150 miles South-West of Plymouth I stumbled upon a Carrier Taskforce for the first time in SH5 . I had no torpedos left

I decided to go anyway and ordered an intercept course at flank speed. An aircraft passed lazily overhead. I paid it no mind as I'd received good intel that the Devs had simply copy & pasted the Aircraft.cfg file from SH4, which is known to be broken and thus the Aircraft had orders not to fire on me. So complacent was I, I didn't even bother to order a man to to the AA guns. "No" I said, "Finish your tea."

I got as close as I could to the Taskforce with the decks awash before opening up on the Carrier with my Deck gun. This was a mistake . The Carrier was surrounded by about 10 escorts, and all of them on the side closest to me immedietly opened fire. I ran around on Deck like a headless chicken, trying to get down the bloody hatch and order a Crash dive. The sky darkened with the number of shells headed my way.

By some miracle, I had made it to 20 meters without a scratch and ordered Periscope depth. When the head of the Observation scope broke the surface I was greeted by a terrible sight for a sober man; six Escorts headed my way at what looked like 20+ knots. Another first for SH5. Having had to evade a Destroyer or two in previous SH5 missions, I knew that I'd be safe at anything below 50 meters. Luckily I was in 100m of water, so there'd be no problem right? Wrong. I received a pounding from the Tommies that made me wish my Mother had never met my Father . Damage reports were coming in like I was working the floor of the Stock Exchange and I think I began to cry .

In between the tears, I managed to make an order that saved all our lives. For the time being. I put the Boat on the Ocean floor and ordered All-stop-quick-quiet. We were taking on water slowly in the Forward Torpedo Compartment, but nothing too serious.

ASDIC came and went and I could hear DC's being dropped off to the South, a half-mile away. After a while I felt brave enough to ascend to Periscope depth. On the way up I allowed the men to make what repairs they felt they could manage.

Even though it was One O'clock in the afternoon, I used the Observation scope to look around. Afterall, it'd never been a problem before. This time was different. Three of the original six escorts had decided to sit and wait for me to come up. That wasn't all. I counted atleast a half-dozen aircraft peforming dive-bombing and straffing runs. The nearest Destroyer soon spotted the large head of the Obs. scope and immedietly headed my way, calling on his friends to join the party. At seeing this I.......[Message Breaks Off]