Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[clayton]

America isn't going anywhere.

[clayton]

Russia’s economy is the size of Argentina. They are nothing more than a gas station. This will be the beginning of the end for Putin, and more than likely, it will come from his people.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by clayton

America isn't going anywhere.

The idea of America is being killed off a little at a time day by day.

[clayton]

No, you're mistaken, and that because of tyrants like Putin. Because of people like him, there will always be people like us.

[Catfish]

Seems the attack came from Belarus, Russia claims ukrainian airforce has been bombed and defeated.
Putin still claims he has no intention to invade. Ah.

Live stream Maiden now, explosions and fireworks are over now

[clayton]

Five Russian jets and one helicopter have been shot down so far. Maybe Ukraine will give the tyrant a bloody nose.

[Catfish]

^ This may all be true, or not. No true news to be found now, it seems the russian ground offensive beginning, also from Belarus (like the air strikes).

I am beginning to hate the EU for doing nothing. Yes i know the EU is an economic club, but if they claim to have some values left..
Sanctions make sense, but even if all the EU agrees, will e.g. London give up its russian money laundering?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...tin/ar-AAUcCvL

https://time.com/6143645/how-to-stop...stion-ukraine/

"So how to proceed? First, President Biden should make a list of Putin’s top 50 oligarch trustees and immediately sanction five of them. This would show Putin that the U.S. is not bluffing. Second, President Biden should give Putin a deadline of 10 days to retreat from the Ukrainian border or another five oligarchs will be sanctioned. In the event that Putin does invade Ukraine, the U.S. will make it be known that they will sanction the full list of these 50 oligarchs, and then draw up a new list of 50 more.

If you ask any Russian dissident or opposition politician what would stop Putin, they would all point toward this strategy. The Magnitsky Act is a like a modern-day cancer drug. Instead of nearly killing the patient to target the cancer, it targets the cancer directly."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act

[Moonlight]

OH FFS Catfish, sanctions are no bloody good against a powerful tyrant that uses bombs and bullets to get what he wants, that stupid strategy you've posted will work against the Saddam Hussein's of this world but it won't work against a bleeding Superpower.
This has been the downfall of the west for bleeding years, they have the war materials but they've got weak leaders in charge of them, the EU, the UK, NATO and America have caused this to happen. They should have had 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border all ready to go the moment Putin's troops threatened a sovereign country, that would have stopped him in his tracks, if not, its WW3. Putin sends a Thank You from KIEV, the Baltic States next?, carry on nothing to see here.

The next thing the EU will do is send in Macron to see Putin and wave his famous White flag of Victory in his face........what! they've already done that, the Ukraine is toast.

[Catfish]

You clearly did not read one word of the above

[Skybird]

Those who refuse to perceive reality cannot master it.

[Skybird]

Hear, hear - the following comes from a person whom I would have assumed to be the most unsuspicious to say something as profound as this:


Former Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer has expressed sorrow over Russia's invasion of Ukraine. "I am so angry at us because we have historically failed. We did not prepare anything after Georgia, Crimea and Donbass that would have really deterred Putin," Kramp-Karrenbauer said on Twitter.

"We have forgotten the lesson of Schmidt and Kohl that negotiations always take precedence, but you have to be so strong militarily that non-negotiation cannot be an option for the other side," Kramp-Karrenbauer continued.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Meanwhile the general inspecteur of the Bundeswehr said that now while NATO has activated the defence plan for Eastern Europe, the Bundeswehr stands there naked and blank for all to see.

And Russia? Well. Putin has more or less openly threatened the use of nuclear weapons against everybody who dares to come into his way.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by clayton

Russia’s economy is the size of Argentina. They are nothing more than a gas station. This will be the beginning of the end for Putin, and more than likely, it will come from his people.

I have heard this argument many times and once upon time I believed into it myself. Unfortunately, realities of Russian economy do not align with those of Western countries. Nose dive of rouble does not matter as long as trading happens within Russia and is done in roubles. While economic sanctions will cause troubles to regular Russian people, it will not hamper upkeep of Russian armed forces and internal security forces as daily expenses are in robules and there is no need to acquire foreign equipment which would be paid in euros or dollars. This is primary reason why Russia is able to maintain large and heavily armed military which Western country with similar GDP would not be able to afford.



Also, Russia is self-sufficient in energy, critical food supplies and many daily necessities, which means that prices of locally produced stuff will likely remain stable. Situation is roughly opposite in Europe, which receives large portion of it's imported energy (both petrochemical raw materials and electricity) from Russia. It is also important to remember, that Russia is major producer of raw materials required by European industrial sector, and Russia and Ukraine combined provide about 30% of world wheat exports.


In short, while Russia is on paper weaker than it's Western counterparts, it has better ability to sustain extended conflict. While some Western products will no longer be available, there is no reason to believe that this would lead into shortages of daily supplies or major increases in prices on internal markets which would cause protest against Russian regime. When combined with almost complete control on news media and powerful internal security forces, I don't believe that Vladimir Putin has any sleping troubles.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Based on Putin's speech, it seems apparent that he wants the Russian Empire back and won't be satisfied with borders of the Soviet Union. This begs the question: How far back in time he wants to go?

If correct answer is time before First World War (1914), then answer in western front is annexation of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland. In south it would mean annexation, installation of puppet government or favourable dictator.


If correct answer is time before Crimean War (1853), then it is same as above plus State of Alaska (purchased by United States in 1867).

Unfortunately, Putin seems to be very patient with his final objectives so he will likely continue eating Europe piece by piece. With suitable detente periods between each slice, this process seems to be working perfectly.

[Andreas86]

Look up wwitv.com for ukraine TV channels, fleets of attack helos over ukraine, fighter planes going down in flames as we speak.. AA, missile strikes and explosions all over. Shot out tanks and dead soldiers on the ground. Airfield outside Kiev taken. Paratroops maybe? The war has begun for real. This is awful.

[Andreas86]