Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Afvaart = Abfahrt I assume , in the meaning of Abwärtsfahrt. But both do not match the nautical purpose here, in german language. Abfahrt either means "departure, departure time (on timetables for trains, busses etc)", or it means to race down the snowy mountain track on skis.

I am not telling this because I read it somewhere my family are all born onboard we are captains of barges and tugboats this is the nautical language same as port or starboard I was five when I started to steer tugboats.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dargo

I am not telling this because I read it somewhere my family are all born onboard we are captains of barges and tugboats this is the nautical language same as port or starboard I was five when I started to steer tugboats.

And it makes sense, in German the talk indeed is of "flussabwärts" (downstream) and "flussaufwärts" (upstream). You mentioned "Talfahrt" (valley drive, if translated literally), and that makes no sense in German in a nautical context. What you named Talfahrt, in German correctly is named "flussabwärts": downstream. No valley needed or in sight.

You really irritated me there, but I got your logic put together now.

News agencies and news speaker and writers on some occasions messed it up with left and ride sides of the Dnepr already, I noticed it on a few occasions. The used both directions on different occasions for the same (Russian occupied) side of the Dnepr.


And then what Catfish said, old fashioed German term "flözen" means woodcutters having the wood lumbs thrown into the water and then travelling with them downstream, so the direction is set. "Treideln" refers to the "Treidelpfade" left and right of rivers and especially channels. Boats and tugs had lines trhown to both sides of the river and there the lines were pulled by horses or men, sometimes oxes. Obviously this made most sense when the tug had to go upstream, so again the direction is somewhat set. The verb for this working method is "treideln".

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by mapuc

[...] I don't think we can fathom how big this victory is for the Ukrainian by retaking Kherson.

This is not over, and Putin fighting on means more pain for all, including russian conscripts. But tonight here where we live, we celebrate.

[Rockstar]

I’m still waiting on Germany to release the leopards.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Catfish

This is not over, and Putin fighting on means more pain for all, including russian conscripts. But tonight here where we live, we celebrate.

Has Putin planned something not so clever when it comes to Kherson ?

I don't know what's going on inside his head now one of his annexed area has been retaken.

Markus

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I’m still waiting on Germany to release the leopards.

I love to quote this, for whatever reason


re releasing Leopards, it will not happen with chancellor Scholz
His past is a quagmire of relations with the old GDR and Russia, and (how witty by me!) a leopard never changes its spots.
Scholz only supports Ukraine because almost all other people and politicians here want to support them. If it were his choice alone.. again

And this is the real danger: Putin is toast (quoted from Skybird):

If only some useful idiots don't step in to save him."

Which perfectly describes Scholz and local AfD (neo nazi) Putin appeasers.

[mapuc]

Markus

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Has Putin planned something not so clever when it comes to Kherson ?

I don't know what's going on inside his head now one of his annexed area has been retaken.

Markus

Think Putin listened to his commander, do not know the plan can imagine he is not busy with this war anymore but busy saving his ass

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

[...] Cardinal points never change. Left and right however are terms used to describe a direction relative to the direction one is facing or traveling.

Yes, at sea or navigating a river all positions and bearings are relative to your own direction and position. When sailing this is self-evident regarding the curent wind direction relative to the course through the water.
Like you wrote, I also noticed the media here confusing directions off the Dnyepr..

If I am transiting inbound/upbound on the waterway. Kherson is on the west bank, on my left or off to port. If I am transiting outbound/down-bound, Kherson is still on the west bank but is now on my right side or off too starboard. Buoys just mark a channel and are colored so you know which ones to stay between and not run aground. In the U.S. it’s “Red Right Returning” . Which means I keep the red channel markers on my right when I’m returning from sea. They will be on my left when a leave port.

Very good explanation! I did not know this is different in the US until August wrote about this some posts above, i somehow thought there were internationally valid navigation marks .. only overseas in open waters it seems.

I’ve been a licensed U.S. Merchant Marine Officer, operated and crewed civilian inspected passenger vessels and military vessels on the Saint Lawrence, all of the Great Lakes, Mississippi River, Chesapeake Bay, Damn near every port along the east and gulf coast of the United States and a few on the west coast, Panama Canal, Greenland, Bahamas, and West Indies, just to name a few. I have never once in all my years heard any captain, cook or able body seaman base the relative direction of land or point of interest on the flow of a river system. Especially if that river’s water flow changes direction every six or so hours with the tides.

Great to hear of your proficiency
I only did private/civilian certificates, there are several in Germany when you want to navigate and/or rent a boat here or in Denmark, and it depends on whether it is marine or inland water navigation..
(For sailing ships you "need" the BR or BK certificate (but you legally do not need anything if the (sailing) boat has no engine))
If the ship's engine has more than 50 hp you need a 'power boat' certificate ("Sportbootfuhrerschein Binnen" (inland) for inland navigation or "See" (SB. sea) for marine conditions).
Since this is Germany it is a bit more complicated, and it all changes over the years ...
It has been almost ten years, i would really love to sail again ..

@Skybird OT re my comment "kalter Druck" is a term from rafting. I am not even sure how to explain or whether this is true:
A raft on a river of course floats downstream, carried by the moving water. But there is also gravity.
Some argue a raft is faster than the stream because of the water surface's angle relative to the earth's center, the gravity accelerating the raft's speed. But then the raft swims, so it is lighter than the water it swims on.. still have not really found whether this "kalter Druck" ("cold pressure" or "pull") is true or not.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I love to quote this, for whatever reason


re releasing Leopards, it will not happen with chancellor Scholz
His past is a quagmire of relations with the old GDR and Russia, and (how witty by me!) a leopard never changes its spots.
Scholz only supports Ukraine because almost all other people and politicians here want to support them. If it were his choice alone.. again

And this is the real danger: Putin is toast (quoted from Skybird):

Which perfectly describes Scholz and local AfD (neo nazi) Putin appeasers.

I’m not talking about the tanks.. I really am thinking about that leopard print dress she’s wearing and what’s underneath it. Think you could convince her to take it off and send it to Ukraine? I’d pay shipping! It would really be appreciated by all of us.

[Catfish]

^
Send her address via pm. I will do my very best!

[Rockstar]

Dugin states that Russian authorities reached the limit of what they can surrender. He blames Putin directly for the failures and low-key threatens him with death.

Original
https://tsargrad.tv/articles/aleksan...plenija_662480

Google Translate
https://tsargrad-tv.translate.goog/a..._x_tr_pto=wapp

ALEXANDER DUGIN: KHERSON IS THE LAST LINE OF RETREAT

A Russian city was commissioned, the capital of one of the regions of Russia - the same as Belgorod, Kursk, Donetsk or Simferopol. If you don't care, then you are not Russian. Russians are now clenching their teeth in pain, weeping and suffering as if their hearts were torn out, their children, brothers, mothers and wives would be killed in front of their eyes. If you don't hurt now, you're nothing.

Power. She is responsible for this. What is the meaning of autocracy, and we have it? We give the Ruler absolute fullness of power, and he saves us all - the people, the state, the people - at a critical moment. If for this he surrounds himself with evil spirits or spits on social justice, this is unpleasant, but if only he saved. What if it doesn't save? Then - the fate of the "king of the rains" awaits him (see Frazer). Autocracy also has a downside. Completeness of power in case of success, but also completeness of responsibility for failure. And how did you want?

How to get out of the situation? Immediately move from a sovereign dictatorship to a commissar, that is, introduce an ideology. The ruler almost did. But almost again. And Kherson was passed not almost, it was completely passed. No claims to Surovikin. He is not a politician, he is responsible for the technical side of the front. Hit not on him. You know who you hit. And no PR will save here anymore. In a critical situation, political technologies do not work at all. History speaks today. And she utters terrible - for us - words.

This is not a betrayal, this is a step towards Armageddon. The conditions of the winning West, this civilization of Satan, will never be acceptable to Moscow. This means that tactical nuclear weapons and strategic nuclear weapons will remain (tactical and strategic nuclear weapons - approx. TsG). That is the end. And here is the most important thing.

Under the pressure of circumstances (and it's very bad that it's so terrible) we made a number of military-political corrections in the conduct of the NMD (why it's so late is a separate question). But it hasn't worked (so far). The last resource is ideology. Real, not the fake that the AP, scared to death by the uprising of reality, is trying to sell.

Stop playing around: Russian Idea. Only she. It is foolish to go for the total destruction of mankind only because of the fear of the Russian Idea, of our ideology. There is no other way. The authorities in Russia can't hand over anything else. The limit has been reached. But purely technical means for Victory are lacking.

The war must become a people's war in full measure. But just so popular - Russian! – the state should become. Not the way it is now.

[Jimbuna]

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky hails an "historic day" after Russia withdraws from the only regional capital taken since the war began.

Residents joined soldiers in Kherson's central square last night to sing patriotic songs around a large camp fire.

The US says Ukraine achieved an "extraordinary victory" after its military forces regained control of the key southern city following a total Russian withdrawal.

The UK's Defence Secretary Ben Wallace says Russia's retreat from Kherson marks "another strategic failure" for Moscow.

Some 30,000 Russian troops were pulled out of the region, Moscow officials say - the BBC cannot verify these figures.

Ukraine's Foreign Minister, Dmytro Kuleba, says they are winning the battles on the ground - but the war continues.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Total combat losses of Russian Federation since beginning of war - about 80,210 people (+810 per day), 2,838 tanks, 1,829 artillery systems, 5,730 armored vehicles. INFOGRAPHICS

The Russian invaders, who invaded the territory of Ukraine, continue to suffer losses. As of the morning of November 12, the loss of enemy personnel is approximately 80,210.

This is reported by Censor.NET with reference to the press center of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

As noted, the total combat losses of the enemy from February 24 to November 12 are estimated to be:

personnel - about 80,210 (+810) people were liquidated,

tanks - 2838 (+24) units,

armored combat vehicles - 5730 (+34) units,

artillery systems - 1829 (+12) units,

MLRS - 393 (+0) units,

air defense equipment - 205 (+0) units,

aircraft - 278 (+0) units,

helicopters - 261 (+0) units,

UAVs of operational-tactical level - 1506 (+1),

cruise missiles - 399 (+0),

ships/boats - 16 (+0) units,

automotive equipment and tank trucks - 4279 (+20) units,

special equipment - 160 (+1). Source: https://censor.net/en/n3380056