Wuhan virus 2020 - Page 536

AVGWarhawk · 08-11-21, 01:23 PM

And to make matters worse:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...aline-solution

Nurse replaces vaccine with saline.

mapuc · 08-11-21, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Sir, the vaccine does not prevent infection. It fights the infection if one is to contract it, lower chance of getting symptoms, no need to go to hospital and or no symptoms at all. Think of Typhoid Mary. She was not affected by typhoid. Carried it all day infecting others. The vaccinated, carries the virus in their sinus all day but not affected by it. One sneeze and off to the races. The new variant is contract by the vaccinated and transmittable.

I know these thing which I use to tell to my fb-friends when they say these vaccine is a hoax they do not protect you at all.

I tried to tell that an unvaccinated has a higher chance to get infected and if bad luck die from it or get some longterm disease, than a vaccinated.
A vaccinated has a 94% protection from getting infected and 82% protection from getting severe ill.

That's why the number of unvaccinated who are infected is on the rise in USA.
But also the vaccinated are infected as well but the number here is lower.

Markus

Jimbuna · 08-11-21, 01:53 PM

AVGWarhawk · 08-11-21, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

I know these thing which I use to tell to my fb-friends when they say these vaccine is a hoax they do not protect you at all.

I tried to tell that an unvaccinated has a higher chance to get infected and if bad luck die from it or get some longterm disease, than a vaccinated.
A vaccinated has a 94% protection from getting infected and 82% protection from getting severe ill.

That's why the number of unvaccinated who are infected is on the rise in USA.
But also the vaccinated are infected as well but the number here is lower.

Markus

Understood. It does appear there is many misconceptions with the vaccine. And rightly so with the multitude of media, social media and the like making claims that do not exist.

But we must look at the words used. Does "infected" mean one is just carrying the virus around unaffected(vaccinated)? Does "infected" mean getting the virus and symptoms(vaccinated or not)? The words carrier and host are never used. Why didn't the CDC state the vaccinated could still be a carrier or host? I never hear or read any news outlet or the CDC state any of this. The unknown vaccine and what it can/can't do should have come with the stipulation that social distancing and mask wearing should continue because they simply did not know who long the vaccine would last. A variant is coming whether we like it or not.

Skybird · 08-11-21, 02:38 PM

Not evertyhing is known in precise detail. What is safe knowledge, is this:

Carriers are already infectous to others days before they may form noticable symptoms themsleves. They spread the virus unknowingly, therefore. The number of days they are ifn ectous before such symptkms, and for hiow long after incubation time, varies with different strains of Covid.

The latter is becasue various straions come with diofefrent CT values and thusm, different viorus oads. The CT value is the worse the lower it is. It marks how many replication cycles the virus must undergo before it numerically overwhelmns the organism. If it needs few, it means the initial virus numbers already were very high. Thus: low CT value = higher infectousness.

Strains also vbary regardi ng ntheir lethality and potence to cause seriosu symptoms. Lamobda seems to be even more ifnectous than delta, for exmaple, but may not come with raised lethality. That is not yet verified and certain, though.

The number of days when you are ifnectous after incubation, is, for variosu strains, in the range of I thinlk 6 to 12 or 14 days. After that the carrier may sitll be symptomaic himself and may be ill, but does not infect others anymore, or does so with drmataically reduced probability.

Vaccinated perosns can catch and carry and infect with the viorus others still, so vaccinated tourists can catch a new strain in holiday and brign it with them. Therefore it makes sense to demand them to test and to wear masks.

Infection probability is higher in closed rooms qwith no mpoving air, than in the open with windy conditions.

The vaccines are almost preventing an infection with pre-Delta strains. With Delta, the vaccinaiton has an very reduced effeciency after the firts mRNA jab, anbd a still reduced, but better effect 14 days after the second jab. The immunization, the level of antobodies present in the blood, seem to delcine again after around 5-6 months. With Delta, the value of the jab lies not so much in preventing to catch the bug, but dramatically reducing the likelihood of formign seriosu symtpims and needing hospüitlaisations. Like a safety belt in a car does not protect you from getting hit by other cars, but it protects you from suffering imemdioaterly lethal injuries. But only when you fasten itk, of course.

If you do not use the seta belt and do not want the jab, and fate finds you and harm strikes you, you sugffer anbd maybe die not from your age, skin colour, reöpgious fiath and comorbidities, but form your own studpoidity. Because youd if not fasten the seatbelt and did not want to get vaccinated.

The argument that the jab does not protect you in full from getting infected with delta, only with earlier strains, and therefore is useless, makes as much sense as the argument that after a car accident the car is ruined if getting engaged in an accident and so seat belts are pointless.

Jabs are seat belts. They do nto protect agaiun st events happenign to you. But they help you to find it easier to survive them. Empirically there is no argument that comes even close at raising doubts about this.

Aerosol clouds in encol,sed comoartments can travel surprisingly faste rthna was though ealr ylast year, and they can stay in midair in infectous quality for up to hours. By summer last year we have seen several simnualtion models and comuter illustrations showiung this, for mthe US, Finland, Norway, and one or two models form Asia.

There is an extremely high correlation between Calcidiol levels int he b lood (active vitmaine D), and lethality of hospitalised cases. This correlation was foudn worldwide, and confirmed many, many, many times. You want minimums, MINIMUMS, of 30-40 nanograms/per millilitre blood. Better more. You need magnesium to enable your body to make metabolical use of your stored Vitamine D which is kept in reserve in yrur fat cells. You must take magnesium as well. You want K2 to help possible raised calcium in your blood from raised resorbation in the guts (a known effect of D3) being m,oved into the bones. At lower daily D3 intake,s this plays porbbaly no role. At extremely high doses, it does.

There are some drugs that ease symptoms of hospitalized Covid 19 cases, and the lethality during treatment thus has dropped. These are no cures so far, and their working method still is not fully understood. With raised expeirence came an increase in knowldge how to deal with Covid patients, and so less of the die. They nevertheless suffer if not beign put in coma. Intubation and lung machines seem to help pushing the death numbers upwards, the option should be seen as an option of last resort, not early "prevention", as was thought earlier last year. Being put on ventilator, is no fun, its a life-threatening condition, not only with Covid. Deaths are nor rare. Patients then face the martyrdom of needing to learn how to breath by themselves again. That means: agony, pyhsical exhaustion coupled with experiences and feelings of suffocating, having the head pushed under water. If you think lightly of that, nobody can help you. Many years ago I knew two people who had to go through ventilation and artificial coma after heart complkicaitosn, and after a car accident. They showed signs of traumatization from the learning-to-breath experience afterwards. Granted, these two peope were very extreme cases, but still: I urge everybody not to think carelsssly of it, as dsoemthig nbarmless. It isn'T, and the method itself has a high risk of deathl, too. Nobody should think of it as "routine". Sometimes you just cannot avoid it. But you should try to avoid it.

Well, this, not more and not lkess, seems to be the well-established and verified knwoeldge status. We have more theories ans hypothesis, and the virus specilaists certainly with their uch more in dpeth knwoeldge also would add plenty of detailed ideas, but much of that still is "in the works". I think I listed all the things that are of pragmatic value for the average Joe and that we do not have doubts on anymore. Scientifically. Antivaccers of course have their faith and will believe whatever fits their mission. And I think that mission is mostly about self-identification and self-definition. They hve investe dso muzchn of themsleve sinto this mvboement and its cklaiusm that it is hard to let go wiotho9ut crahsign hard in a reuced, harsh groudn of reality if giving up these sensational thinking models. Its a drug for them, a kick by weiuciubn they can think of themselves as something special, unique, heroic. They are junkies, and they are full of their own special creation. Take that illusion away, and they are just ordinary, grey everyday people again, caught in their normal ordinary everyday life. How shiny their heroic fight against the jabs instead seem to be! The temptation is a big one.

Sean C · 08-11-21, 02:50 PM

I suppose there is no way to tell if a person who became extremely ill or died from Covid had been exposed in the past. IOW, I'm wondering if the most severe cases occurring now are limited to people who not only haven't been vaccinated, but also have never been exposed.

I'm also wondering what percentage of people who had ill-effects from the vaccine hadn't been previously exposed.

mapuc · 08-11-21, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean C

I suppose there is no way to tell if a person who became extremely ill or died from Covid had been exposed in the past. IOW, I'm wondering if the most severe cases occurring now are limited to people who not only haven't been vaccinated, but also have never been exposed.

I'm also wondering what percentage of people who had ill-effects from the vaccine hadn't been previously exposed.

Even people who have been infected before can be it again-since Delta variant is a mutated version from former variant.

Markus

AVGWarhawk · 08-11-21, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean C

I suppose there is no way to tell if a person who became extremely ill or died from Covid had been exposed in the past. IOW, I'm wondering if the most severe cases occurring now are limited to people who not only haven't been vaccinated, but also have never been exposed.

I'm also wondering what percentage of people who had ill-effects from the vaccine hadn't been previously exposed.

Well, the quarterback for the Raven has had COVID twice. So, we can assume that once over it it does not mean there truly is an natural immunity now. He is still not considering the vaccine.

Skybird · 08-11-21, 03:01 PM

British scientists say Delta has wrecked hopes for herd immunity.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...rn-scientists/

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/eng...ne-2021-08-06/

mapuc · 08-11-21, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Well, the quarterback for the Raven has had COVID twice. So, we can assume that once over it it does not mean there truly is an natural immunity now. He is still not considering the vaccine.

And the reason is mutation
You can be infected by virus A and survive and a few month later be infected by virus B. You can never be infected by the same virus variation twice

Markus

AVGWarhawk · 08-11-21, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

British scientists say Delta has wrecked hopes for herd immunity.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...rn-scientists/

I think that is a given.

Skybird · 08-11-21, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

And the reason is mutation
You can be infected by virus A and survive and a few month later be infected by virus B. You can never be infected by the same virus variation twice

Markus

Reason also is that the level of antibodies fall again after 5-6 months. An attackign virus then meets less resistence when storming the beach, for the defender needs more time to get his defences up and reinforcements in again.

AVGWarhawk · 08-11-21, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Reason also is that the level of antibodies fall again after 5-6 months. An attackign virus then meets less resistence when storming the beach, for the defender needs more time to get his defences up and reinforcements in again.

Enter the booster shot.

mapuc · 08-11-21, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Reason also is that the level of antibodies fall again after 5-6 months. An attackign virus then meets less resistence when storming the beach, for the defender needs more time to get his defences up and reinforcements in again.

Can't remember when I read it.

It was an article about the development of a pill.
so instead of getting a jab in your left shoulder you take pills
I guess it will be with 14 days between first and second and the third booster pills after 3 month

Markus

Catfish · 08-11-21, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I raise my glass of chlorine bleach to toast this author in salute !

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-58164833

^ Could it be people who have not been vaccinated turn into zombies? Or have been all the time?

08-11-21, 01:23 PM	#8026
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 27,343 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	And to make matters worse: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...aline-solution Nurse replaces vaccine with saline. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

08-11-21, 01:53 PM	#8028
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

08-11-21, 02:38 PM	#8030
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,645 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Not evertyhing is known in precise detail. What is safe knowledge, is this: Carriers are already infectous to others days before they may form noticable symptoms themsleves. They spread the virus unknowingly, therefore. The number of days they are ifn ectous before such symptkms, and for hiow long after incubation time, varies with different strains of Covid. The latter is becasue various straions come with diofefrent CT values and thusm, different viorus oads. The CT value is the worse the lower it is. It marks how many replication cycles the virus must undergo before it numerically overwhelmns the organism. If it needs few, it means the initial virus numbers already were very high. Thus: low CT value = higher infectousness. Strains also vbary regardi ng ntheir lethality and potence to cause seriosu symptoms. Lamobda seems to be even more ifnectous than delta, for exmaple, but may not come with raised lethality. That is not yet verified and certain, though. The number of days when you are ifnectous after incubation, is, for variosu strains, in the range of I thinlk 6 to 12 or 14 days. After that the carrier may sitll be symptomaic himself and may be ill, but does not infect others anymore, or does so with drmataically reduced probability. Vaccinated perosns can catch and carry and infect with the viorus others still, so vaccinated tourists can catch a new strain in holiday and brign it with them. Therefore it makes sense to demand them to test and to wear masks. Infection probability is higher in closed rooms qwith no mpoving air, than in the open with windy conditions. The vaccines are almost preventing an infection with pre-Delta strains. With Delta, the vaccinaiton has an very reduced effeciency after the firts mRNA jab, anbd a still reduced, but better effect 14 days after the second jab. The immunization, the level of antobodies present in the blood, seem to delcine again after around 5-6 months. With Delta, the value of the jab lies not so much in preventing to catch the bug, but dramatically reducing the likelihood of formign seriosu symtpims and needing hospüitlaisations. Like a safety belt in a car does not protect you from getting hit by other cars, but it protects you from suffering imemdioaterly lethal injuries. But only when you fasten itk, of course. If you do not use the seta belt and do not want the jab, and fate finds you and harm strikes you, you sugffer anbd maybe die not from your age, skin colour, reöpgious fiath and comorbidities, but form your own studpoidity. Because youd if not fasten the seatbelt and did not want to get vaccinated. The argument that the jab does not protect you in full from getting infected with delta, only with earlier strains, and therefore is useless, makes as much sense as the argument that after a car accident the car is ruined if getting engaged in an accident and so seat belts are pointless. Jabs are seat belts. They do nto protect agaiun st events happenign to you. But they help you to find it easier to survive them. Empirically there is no argument that comes even close at raising doubts about this. Aerosol clouds in encol,sed comoartments can travel surprisingly faste rthna was though ealr ylast year, and they can stay in midair in infectous quality for up to hours. By summer last year we have seen several simnualtion models and comuter illustrations showiung this, for mthe US, Finland, Norway, and one or two models form Asia. There is an extremely high correlation between Calcidiol levels int he b lood (active vitmaine D), and lethality of hospitalised cases. This correlation was foudn worldwide, and confirmed many, many, many times. You want minimums, MINIMUMS, of 30-40 nanograms/per millilitre blood. Better more. You need magnesium to enable your body to make metabolical use of your stored Vitamine D which is kept in reserve in yrur fat cells. You must take magnesium as well. You want K2 to help possible raised calcium in your blood from raised resorbation in the guts (a known effect of D3) being m,oved into the bones. At lower daily D3 intake,s this plays porbbaly no role. At extremely high doses, it does. There are some drugs that ease symptoms of hospitalized Covid 19 cases, and the lethality during treatment thus has dropped. These are no cures so far, and their working method still is not fully understood. With raised expeirence came an increase in knowldge how to deal with Covid patients, and so less of the die. They nevertheless suffer if not beign put in coma. Intubation and lung machines seem to help pushing the death numbers upwards, the option should be seen as an option of last resort, not early "prevention", as was thought earlier last year. Being put on ventilator, is no fun, its a life-threatening condition, not only with Covid. Deaths are nor rare. Patients then face the martyrdom of needing to learn how to breath by themselves again. That means: agony, pyhsical exhaustion coupled with experiences and feelings of suffocating, having the head pushed under water. If you think lightly of that, nobody can help you. Many years ago I knew two people who had to go through ventilation and artificial coma after heart complkicaitosn, and after a car accident. They showed signs of traumatization from the learning-to-breath experience afterwards. Granted, these two peope were very extreme cases, but still: I urge everybody not to think carelsssly of it, as dsoemthig nbarmless. It isn'T, and the method itself has a high risk of deathl, too. Nobody should think of it as "routine". Sometimes you just cannot avoid it. But you should try to avoid it. Well, this, not more and not lkess, seems to be the well-established and verified knwoeldge status. We have more theories ans hypothesis, and the virus specilaists certainly with their uch more in dpeth knwoeldge also would add plenty of detailed ideas, but much of that still is "in the works". I think I listed all the things that are of pragmatic value for the average Joe and that we do not have doubts on anymore. Scientifically. Antivaccers of course have their faith and will believe whatever fits their mission. And I think that mission is mostly about self-identification and self-definition. They hve investe dso muzchn of themsleve sinto this mvboement and its cklaiusm that it is hard to let go wiotho9ut crahsign hard in a reuced, harsh groudn of reality if giving up these sensational thinking models. Its a drug for them, a kick by weiuciubn they can think of themselves as something special, unique, heroic. They are junkies, and they are full of their own special creation. Take that illusion away, and they are just ordinary, grey everyday people again, caught in their normal ordinary everyday life. How shiny their heroic fight against the jabs instead seem to be! The temptation is a big one. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-11-21, 02:50 PM	#8031
Sean C Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 913 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 2	I suppose there is no way to tell if a person who became extremely ill or died from Covid had been exposed in the past. IOW, I'm wondering if the most severe cases occurring now are limited to people who not only haven't been vaccinated, but also have never been exposed. I'm also wondering what percentage of people who had ill-effects from the vaccine hadn't been previously exposed. __________________ If you have a question about celestial navigation ... ask me! Celestial Navigation Spreadsheet

08-11-21, 03:01 PM	#8034
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,645 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	British scientists say Delta has wrecked hopes for herd immunity. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...rn-scientists/ https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/eng...ne-2021-08-06/ __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.