So is this it! - Page 5

HundertzehnGustav · 01-12-13, 12:17 PM

so what we dont need is SHO

we need a long hiatus from SHIII because SHIII still undermines more modern subsims.

see my sig.
XD

don't hold your breath for that to happen.
dude i got SHIII in '06. left the game in 09. started again in late 12, and it still rocks my boat.
that is how BIG SHIII is. Or has become.
*very very very large grin*

Sonarman · 01-12-13, 03:28 PM

Not sure if any of you saw this post on the Unity forums a while back but subsim super modder Hans Witteman had a very interesting response to his team's mooted subsim project...

"Hi Hans,

My main question for you is there a business plan and any available funding for this project?

I know the original lead programmer and designer, Bill Becker, of the very first Silent Hunter and he is available (around 25 years of experience and about your age). The lead artist is also a good friend of ours but he's mostly tied up with a 9 to 5 job but certainly available for your reference. I am also an expert in Unity, with 20 years professional game experience (primarily programming) and I'm currently working on an underwater game and I could answer most technical questions you have. We both come from a heavy simulations background, myself having worked on Gunship 2000 and F-15 Strike Eagle III back in the day, and Bill has worked on a ridiculous number of simulation titles as that is his specialty.

I went through most of your site and can tell that you are extremely passionate and serious about this project. If you can let us know more about your background (commercial projects are of greatest interest) and your team members we could probably put together quite a powerful team. We have access to many of the developers from the old MicroProse Software days, including business development. For a AAA game you need serious resources in business, marketing and distribution so we want to make sure you have the whole picture covered and how we might best work together."

Don Goddard

Presumably the artist of which they speak is the legendary Kim Biscoe who worked on Pirates! Gold, Silent Service II, Great Naval Battles 1,2,3 &4, Silent Hunter, Silent Hunter II and on the radar & sonar screens of Destroyer Command as well as many other sims.The word "Kickstarter" springs to mind... time to put our money where our mouth is?

And if not for a subsim project I wish these guys would at least tie up with Ed Fletcher for his (programming almost complete) reboot of TF1942+1942PAW.

elanaiba · 01-12-13, 04:26 PM

Nice!

I grew up with Microprose sims as a kid ... F-19 Stealth Fighter anyone? Made general in F-15 Strike Eagle II, played the hell out of F-117 and then I discovered Falcon 3 and the rest is history.

The demise of the western simulation developers was a great blow to this industry and to us players. One can argue that the East Europe developers have brought great advances in simulation, technology ... but to me nothing can touch the immersion, fun and overall experience of the old breed.

Any serious sim from the "old" guys would instantly have my "buy" button clicked.

Nexus7 · 01-12-13, 05:11 PM

Nice reading Sonarman.

Now find some programmer with such potential

Sonarman · 01-12-13, 05:16 PM

@Elanaiba
Yes the old Microprose sims were great. I vividly remember racing home from school in the 80's to play those old favourites, I'd sit down at seven pm and after what seemed like five minutes suddenly realise it was after midnight, the true hallmark of any great game. Even today the likes of Red Storm Rising & Task Force 1942 are quite playable and unequalled in gameplay terms in their respective sub-genres.

Good luck with your current project Dan, can't wait to see what you guys come up with now you are free from the body corporate!

Sonarman · 01-12-13, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus7

Nice reading Sonarman.

Now find some programmer with such potential

Bill Becker was the main programmer for the original Silent Hunter game
Don Goddard worked as a programmer on F15-Strike Eagle III & Gunship 2000
...sounds pretty potential rich to me.

If Ed Fletcher (Task Force 1942/ 1942 Pacific Air War/F117A) or Dan (SH3,4,5)or EAST(Enigma Rising Tide) jumped in too that would also be great though!

01-12-13, 09:24 PM

Well. I can look back and see this.
Many took a stand against Ubi over SH5 and the DRM issue mostly.
As a Group it was repeated over and over "I'm not buying".

They called the bluff people!
We now have exactly what most probably feared would happen.
I admit I've posted bad stuff about SH5.
But I did buy a copy. I'm buying another copy as a download cause I don't have my DVD with me and someone needs some help with a Mod.

We can HOPE some outside group does something someday.
But you all know what is said about that.
Hope in one hand and crap in the other.
See what hand gets full first!

Or make an offer that Ubi can't refuse.
(Well they can but it's worth a try!)

AOTD_MadMax · 01-13-13, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba

I'm not sure I follow you Maddy, our programmers work wasn't really impacted by the volume of 3D work - which is done by other guys?!

On the other hand, our programmers had a lot more work to do to make sure SHV is more moddable than previous games. Not everything turned out ok, esp. with technology change things go to hell, but we had the best intentions to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to defend or portray SH5 as the greatest perfect planned project, it's bollocks. I'm just trying to be factual and share a few points about SH series evolution vs players expectations.

Now of course we have to realize that if SH5 would have been the perfect game / sim and word of mouth of the early adopters / reviews would have been great, even those not buying because of the "only type VII" issue may have been convinced. Add the DRM debacle on top of that, and you have more reasons than not to keep on the fence

Hi Dan,

I'm a businessman and I work in a marketing department, and I know exactly how things are going.

There is a budget for a project and if the budget is used up, it will either be published by measures quickly, or it is set.

The decision was made in favor of a publication of SH5.
The result of this decision is an unfinished SH5 as we all know.

Now, where is the cause?

Clearly in the distribution of resources.
I remember exactly how Ubisoft pushed the GWXTeam to quit GWX 4.0 because GWX4.0 already had contents which should come in SH5.

Instead of using the skills of modders so as to keep the budget lean, even modding was suppressed.

Tomi99 had already much better prepared detailed diesel interiors than they are in SH5.
The modders were already so at another stage of evolution and Ubi ran after.
Rather than take advantage of the use of the well-built models of the modder, Ubi built his own far worse models.
The budget shrank and for the things you can not see, there was no more money.
This includes the Ki, nonfunctional Magnetpistol and many other things which do not work in SH5.

Much money was spent for the optics in order for great video clips to attract more customers but the game play was all into the back.

The entire budget for the models you could have saved because they were present almost all in a better shape.
Then SH5 would also have been a success.
Today, outsourcing is in any industry the key for success and the solution for projects with a slim budget.

Regards

Maddy

elanaiba · 01-13-13, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOTD_MadMax

I remember exactly how Ubisoft pushed the GWXTeam to quit GWX 4.0 because GWX4.0 already had contents which should come in SH5.

?!?!?!?!?! When did they do that? How did they do that?!

SNAKE1937 · 01-13-13, 10:11 AM

I remember when the GW team posted that they would not be fixing SH4.

A sad day, as I loved what they did with SH3 ( still my favorate SH game).

What ever happen to all of that talent?

Sailor Steve · 01-13-13, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNAKE1937

What ever happen to all of that talent?

Some of it has moved on to other things. Some of it is still around, but working individually. Some of it is even working with former "opponents" to improve the gaming experience for all of it. There are new and extremely talented teams working on various games, including SH3. I only hope someday they'll apply that same energy to SH4 and SH5. What work is being done on those games is laudable, but not enough. This is not due to lack of talent in the people working on them, but in the lack of people working on them.

HertogJan · 01-14-13, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonarman

And if not for a subsim project I wish these guys would at least tie up with Ed Fletcher for his (programming almost complete) reboot of TF1942+1942PAW.

Oooh boy,

Those where the day's, I remember having to make a boot disk just to be able to get 1942PAW to run with mouse and joystick.

Man I loved that game and tried to play it over on freegamesempire.
IF they are giving new life to that game I'll most definitely buy it

Nexus7 · 01-14-13, 02:35 PM

While those where pioneering days, I don't see why they dont take a REAL NEW BIG challenge?
SHO is in a way pioneering again... but

why dont go for multiplayer

or MMO

maybe with driveable destroyers

AH WAIT! - maybe thats a future development of SHO

BigBANGtheory · 01-15-13, 07:39 AM

We just need to sell Chris Roberts on the concept of Sea Citizen

he seems to understand what PC games are about.

01-12-13, 12:17 PM	#61
HundertzehnGustav Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lux, betw. G, B and F Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	so what we dont need is SHO we need a long hiatus from SHIII because SHIII still undermines more modern subsims. see my sig. XD don't hold your breath for that to happen. dude i got SHIII in '06. left the game in 09. started again in late 12, and it still rocks my boat. that is how BIG SHIII is. Or has become. very very very large grin __________________ In conclusion: SH3 is the shizzle, yo. -Frau Kaleun Another negative about using your deck gun is that you are definately DETECTED, which has long term effects on your relationship with aircraft. -snestorm

01-12-13, 03:28 PM	#62
Sonarman The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ayr,Scotland,UK Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 0	Not sure if any of you saw this post on the Unity forums a while back but subsim super modder Hans Witteman had a very interesting response to his team's mooted subsim project... "Hi Hans, My main question for you is there a business plan and any available funding for this project? I know the original lead programmer and designer, Bill Becker, of the very first Silent Hunter and he is available (around 25 years of experience and about your age). The lead artist is also a good friend of ours but he's mostly tied up with a 9 to 5 job but certainly available for your reference. I am also an expert in Unity, with 20 years professional game experience (primarily programming) and I'm currently working on an underwater game and I could answer most technical questions you have. We both come from a heavy simulations background, myself having worked on Gunship 2000 and F-15 Strike Eagle III back in the day, and Bill has worked on a ridiculous number of simulation titles as that is his specialty. I went through most of your site and can tell that you are extremely passionate and serious about this project. If you can let us know more about your background (commercial projects are of greatest interest) and your team members we could probably put together quite a powerful team. We have access to many of the developers from the old MicroProse Software days, including business development. For a AAA game you need serious resources in business, marketing and distribution so we want to make sure you have the whole picture covered and how we might best work together." Don Goddard Presumably the artist of which they speak is the legendary Kim Biscoe who worked on Pirates! Gold, Silent Service II, Great Naval Battles 1,2,3 &4, Silent Hunter, Silent Hunter II and on the radar & sonar screens of Destroyer Command as well as many other sims.The word "Kickstarter" springs to mind... time to put our money where our mouth is? And if not for a subsim project I wish these guys would at least tie up with Ed Fletcher for his (programming almost complete) reboot of TF1942+1942PAW. __________________ "The action is simulated...the excitement is real!" Microprose Simulation Software. Last edited by Sonarman; 01-12-13 at 04:14 PM.

01-12-13, 04:26 PM	#63
elanaiba Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,058 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 3	Nice! I grew up with Microprose sims as a kid ... F-19 Stealth Fighter anyone? Made general in F-15 Strike Eagle II, played the hell out of F-117 and then I discovered Falcon 3 and the rest is history. The demise of the western simulation developers was a great blow to this industry and to us players. One can argue that the East Europe developers have brought great advances in simulation, technology ... but to me nothing can touch the immersion, fun and overall experience of the old breed. Any serious sim from the "old" guys would instantly have my "buy" button clicked. __________________ With strength I burn...

01-12-13, 05:11 PM	#64
Nexus7 Commander Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 469 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Nice reading Sonarman. Now find some programmer with such potential __________________ If you are going through hell... keep going (Winston Churchill)

01-12-13, 05:16 PM	#65
Sonarman The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ayr,Scotland,UK Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 0	@Elanaiba Yes the old Microprose sims were great. I vividly remember racing home from school in the 80's to play those old favourites, I'd sit down at seven pm and after what seemed like five minutes suddenly realise it was after midnight, the true hallmark of any great game. Even today the likes of Red Storm Rising & Task Force 1942 are quite playable and unequalled in gameplay terms in their respective sub-genres. Good luck with your current project Dan, can't wait to see what you guys come up with now you are free from the body corporate! __________________ "The action is simulated...the excitement is real!" Microprose Simulation Software. Last edited by Sonarman; 01-12-13 at 08:57 PM.

01-12-13, 09:24 PM	#67
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Well. I can look back and see this. Many took a stand against Ubi over SH5 and the DRM issue mostly. As a Group it was repeated over and over "I'm not buying". They called the bluff people! We now have exactly what most probably feared would happen. I admit I've posted bad stuff about SH5. But I did buy a copy. I'm buying another copy as a download cause I don't have my DVD with me and someone needs some help with a Mod. We can HOPE some outside group does something someday. But you all know what is said about that. Hope in one hand and crap in the other. See what hand gets full first! Or make an offer that Ubi can't refuse. (Well they can but it's worth a try!)

01-13-13, 10:11 AM	#70
SNAKE1937 Loader Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Colorado, summer/ Arizona, winter Posts: 90 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I remember when the GW team posted that they would not be fixing SH4. A sad day, as I loved what they did with SH3 ( still my favorate SH game). What ever happen to all of that talent?

01-14-13, 02:35 PM	#73
Nexus7 Commander Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 469 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	While those where pioneering days, I don't see why they dont take a REAL NEW BIG challenge? SHO is in a way pioneering again... but why dont go for multiplayer or MMO maybe with driveable destroyers AH WAIT! - maybe thats a future development of SHO __________________ If you are going through hell... keep going (Winston Churchill)

01-15-13, 07:39 AM	#74
BigBANGtheory Officer Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: British Waters Posts: 243 Downloads: 98 Uploads: 0	We just need to sell Chris Roberts on the concept of Sea Citizen he seems to understand what PC games are about.