Here we go again-Ukraine once again - Page 47

mapuc · 02-19-22, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Plus it likely would break Putin'S neck at home, with public opinion, and maybe even from within his inner circle. It wil aleaey difficult enoguh for him to justify a war aaginst the Ukraine. I am not certain that he will succeed with that. I see a realistic chance that if he does not deliver the mother of all super-fast Blitzkrieg victories, it will bring him into deep trouble at home.

Well in the news here in Denmark and Sweden says that Putin is running a massive propaganda show-Telling the Russian people, Ukraine is being lead by nazis and they have build concentration camps for the Russians

Markus

Jimbuna · 02-19-22, 12:44 PM

The shock of any invasion of Ukraine by Russia would "echo around the world", Boris Johnson has told world leaders.

He said we must be "unflinchingly honest" about the situation in Ukraine and should not "underestimate the gravity of this moment".

In a speech at a security conference in Munich, Mr Johnson said he does not know what Russian President Vladimir Putin intends, but "omens are grim".

"And that is why we must stand strong together," he said.

Western nations have warned Russia could invade Ukraine imminently, with over 130,000 of its troops near the border.

They accuse Russia of trying to stage a fake crisis in a breakaway eastern region of Ukraine to give it a reason to invade.

But Russia has repeatedly denied having plans to invade, saying troops are conducting military exercises in the region, accusing the West of "hysteria".

Catfish · 02-19-22, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Well in the news here in Denmark and Sweden says that Putin is running a massive propaganda show-Telling the Russian people, Ukraine is being lead by nazis and they have build concentration camps for the Russians Markus

Does anyone believe that sh..., even in Russia, really?

Catfish · 02-19-22, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

[...]
But Russia has repeatedly denied having plans to invade, saying troops are conducting military exercises in the region, accusing the West of "hysteria".

Of course it will not be an invasion, it will be (called by Russia) a liberation!

Jeff-Groves · 02-19-22, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Does anyone believe that sh..., even in Russia, really?

Well. I have a new Range that the User manual says 'Don't enter the Oven'.
AND it has a HIDDEN Sabbath mode!
So guess you can fool some of the people all the time.

mapuc · 02-19-22, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Does anyone believe that sh..., even in Russia, really?

This map was shown on Russian state TV and was supposed to be a intercepted map with the Ukrainian attack plans against the self-proclaimed republics.
But prepared in Russian, which is not used in Ukrainian military.

Markus

Catfish · 02-19-22, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Well. I have a new Range that the User manual says 'Don't enter the Oven'. [...]
AND it has a HIDDEN Sabbath mode!

What is this hidden Sabbath mode, something like "May not work at Sabbath so oven won't work"?

Edit: I just realized this may be it

mapuc · 02-19-22, 07:13 PM

When I read following in the Swedish news I came to think on our friend Skybird, who has said this a few times.

Translated

"
Putin has painted himself into a corner and must therefore act,
which makes an invasion of Ukraine "almost inevitable", says SVT's correspondent Bert Sundström who is in Kyiv.
The risk of war is very great, according to Bert Sundström.
-It is really a feeling here in Ukraine that you have to strengthen the defense and be prepared. Everyone thinks something
will happen.
-A small invasion somewhere is almost inevitable, says Bert Sundström in Saturday's Report

Markus

Andreas86 · 02-19-22, 09:00 PM

One has to see two sides of this..

To be fair to Russia, it is indeed true that NATO has expanded far beyond the promises that were made after the fall of the Soviet Union. Russia is a big country and a world power, and like the US it will need armspace. Imagine if the warzaw pact survived and advanced to the doorstep of the US, do you not think Washington would act? Indeed the US HAS acted many times, far beyond its normal spheres of influence and also involved Europe/Britain/NATO in these endeavours. Wars have been started for both vengeance and economic reasons but this is all forgotten now it seems.

Remember "Weapons Of Mass Destruction", the late Colin Powell misleading the United Nations and the world on behalf of the Bush administration? The "axis of evil"? Today american media condemns the "coming" false flag event, the pretext to war in Ukraine. In my view, the US is in NO PLACE to judge or dictate morals to anyone, as it has left a trail of broken and bombed out distant countries in its wake. It is shameful to see America pass judgement so often, when it has itself invaded far away nations at will and at any time. It has destabilized where it has seen fit and sculpted its surroundings through illegal or covert operations.

Yet, it is Russia that in the last decade has been labeled the big bad wolf in the world. Western media, including the media in my home country Norway, has conjured Russia up to being this antagonist. In many ways I think this new cold war is a result of western medias alienation of Russia and Vladimir Putin. I do not condone Russias aggression against Ukraine, not at all. I hope to God that war does not break out, but I fear it will. I prey for the safety of the people of Ukraine and Europeans. But we should all stop and think a bit, and ask if constantly pushing Russia is a wise thing to do. NATO should stop the expansion now, it is not the 70s and 80s anymore. The world is not so black and white, nor good and bad. And given Europes history of the last 100 years, I have no problems understanding that Russia doesn't want western military influence on its doorstep. But sadly our leaders never learn, NEVER.

Know this: My own country is comparatively about as ill-prepared for conflict now as it was in april 1940, and our former prime minister Jens Stoltenberg was a huge part in severely building DOWN our already miniscule military forces in the 2000s. Now he spouts big words from the chair of NATO, as if he EVER really supported NATO in his own ideologic mind. How he ever got that gig is anyones guess. One can only hope he paid more attention is history lessons than his english lessons..

Anyway, I write this as a Norwegian and european. I have nothing against neither the US or Russia, nor its people. And I do not think that either nation is the evil part. If anything they are equally evil.

sublynx · 02-20-22, 12:59 AM

I'd like to add three sides to the two sides (West vs. Russia) argument. The fact is that Putin has already managed to occupy Belarus without anybody but the poor people of Belarus noticing. As difficult as it is, the Western powers have an obligation to add ethics to the balance of power problems. If the West pays no thought on what is wrong and what is right, there is no difference between Putin, Xi Jinping or the Western leaders.

Skybird · 02-20-22, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sublynx

I'd like to add three sides to the two sides (West vs. Russia) argument. The fact is that Putin has already managed to occupy Belarus without anybody but the poor people of Belarus noticing.

Fact is the tyrant in Belarus called him in. If there is an occupatien, then it is the tyrant occupying Belarus.

Quote:

As difficult as it is, the Western powers have an obligation to add ethics to the balance of power problems.

"Obligation"? Why? And more important: How?

Quote:

If the West pays no thought on what is wrong and what is right, there is no difference between Putin, Xi Jinping or the Western leaders.

We have no obligation to compensate for the lack of morals of the evil doers. Just saying that for technical reasons. We are no responsible for the failings of the others, only for our own.

Beyond that we must keep an eye on the difference between what morally is claimed to be desirable (and I reserve the right to disagree on some or many of these claims that nowadays are taken as natural), and what pragmatically can be done and acchieved. Moral standards do not compensate for lacking ability and power.

See contemporary Germany as a textbook example, which currently is crashing hard on the concrete grounds of reality after decades of having dreamed moralistic daydreams without having the musclce to support them. Germany is heavily depending on external factors it cannot control, on energy imports, and exporting to other markets, and it has almost no military muscle worth to be called that. It is held accountable already for unimaginable ammounts of debts risen by other nations in Europe, and for some stupid reasons I will never understand voluntarily accepted these, without being forced. Nevertheless, the Greens claim they now do a "feminist value-driven foreign policy". Well, we talk about that again in four years. Or more precisely: we won't because nobody will even remember even just the claim anymore. We Germans already went through many good-will cakes we once have baked at our own expenses and that recently exploded into our faces, and more exploding cakes are imminent in the forseebale future to slam into our faces.

Its better to be strong and have power and not needing to use it, than needing it and then finding out one has none. The world is no garden Eden, nor is life in general. Its a fighting pit.

Dark Forest. Who has red Cixin Liu knows what I mean.

mapuc · 02-20-22, 08:40 AM

I wouldn't call it a funny feeling, more a weird feeling. The feeling something terrible is going to happen, very soon

It makes me wonder if the people in the beginning of sept 1939 had the same feeling-Awaiting the inevitable.

They have also expand the exercise in Belarus-Don't know what this mean.

Markus

Skybird · 02-20-22, 09:38 AM

Olympics are over now.

Now we will see whether there will be a new Tonkin fairytale or not.

"Manouvers" in Belarus have been "extended". The Russian troops, war yes or no, have no intention to ever leave Belarus again anyway, I am certain. Belarus again is Russia's now. Putin always wanted iot so, but Lukashenko until the recent rigged election and following riots rejected the intention. Until he had no more choice.

Onkel Neal · 02-20-22, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

I wouldn't call it a funny feeling, more a weird feeling. The feeling something terrible is going to happen, very soon

It makes me wonder if the people in the beginning of sept 1939 had the same feeling-Awaiting the inevitable.

They have also expand the exercise in Belarus-Don't know what this mean.

Markus

Yeah, agreed. Except the people in 1939 did not face a dictator who was showing off nuclear weapons.

Jimbuna · 02-20-22, 10:39 AM

Todays offering from our resident clown.

Quote:

Evidence suggests Russia is planning "the biggest war in Europe since 1945", Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60448162

02-19-22, 12:44 PM	#692
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,344 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The shock of any invasion of Ukraine by Russia would "echo around the world", Boris Johnson has told world leaders. He said we must be "unflinchingly honest" about the situation in Ukraine and should not "underestimate the gravity of this moment". In a speech at a security conference in Munich, Mr Johnson said he does not know what Russian President Vladimir Putin intends, but "omens are grim". "And that is why we must stand strong together," he said. Western nations have warned Russia could invade Ukraine imminently, with over 130,000 of its troops near the border. They accuse Russia of trying to stage a fake crisis in a breakaway eastern region of Ukraine to give it a reason to invade. But Russia has repeatedly denied having plans to invade, saying troops are conducting military exercises in the region, accusing the West of "hysteria". __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

02-19-22, 07:13 PM	#698
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,084 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	When I read following in the Swedish news I came to think on our friend Skybird, who has said this a few times. Translated " Putin has painted himself into a corner and must therefore act, which makes an invasion of Ukraine "almost inevitable", says SVT's correspondent Bert Sundström who is in Kyiv. The risk of war is very great, according to Bert Sundström. -It is really a feeling here in Ukraine that you have to strengthen the defense and be prepared. Everyone thinks something will happen. -A small invasion somewhere is almost inevitable, says Bert Sundström in Saturday's Report Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

02-19-22, 09:00 PM	#699
Andreas86 Ensign Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 221 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 2	One has to see two sides of this.. To be fair to Russia, it is indeed true that NATO has expanded far beyond the promises that were made after the fall of the Soviet Union. Russia is a big country and a world power, and like the US it will need armspace. Imagine if the warzaw pact survived and advanced to the doorstep of the US, do you not think Washington would act? Indeed the US HAS acted many times, far beyond its normal spheres of influence and also involved Europe/Britain/NATO in these endeavours. Wars have been started for both vengeance and economic reasons but this is all forgotten now it seems. Remember "Weapons Of Mass Destruction", the late Colin Powell misleading the United Nations and the world on behalf of the Bush administration? The "axis of evil"? Today american media condemns the "coming" false flag event, the pretext to war in Ukraine. In my view, the US is in NO PLACE to judge or dictate morals to anyone, as it has left a trail of broken and bombed out distant countries in its wake. It is shameful to see America pass judgement so often, when it has itself invaded far away nations at will and at any time. It has destabilized where it has seen fit and sculpted its surroundings through illegal or covert operations. Yet, it is Russia that in the last decade has been labeled the big bad wolf in the world. Western media, including the media in my home country Norway, has conjured Russia up to being this antagonist. In many ways I think this new cold war is a result of western medias alienation of Russia and Vladimir Putin. I do not condone Russias aggression against Ukraine, not at all. I hope to God that war does not break out, but I fear it will. I prey for the safety of the people of Ukraine and Europeans. But we should all stop and think a bit, and ask if constantly pushing Russia is a wise thing to do. NATO should stop the expansion now, it is not the 70s and 80s anymore. The world is not so black and white, nor good and bad. And given Europes history of the last 100 years, I have no problems understanding that Russia doesn't want western military influence on its doorstep. But sadly our leaders never learn, NEVER. Know this: My own country is comparatively about as ill-prepared for conflict now as it was in april 1940, and our former prime minister Jens Stoltenberg was a huge part in severely building DOWN our already miniscule military forces in the 2000s. Now he spouts big words from the chair of NATO, as if he EVER really supported NATO in his own ideologic mind. How he ever got that gig is anyones guess. One can only hope he paid more attention is history lessons than his english lessons.. Anyway, I write this as a Norwegian and european. I have nothing against neither the US or Russia, nor its people. And I do not think that either nation is the evil part. If anything they are equally evil. Last edited by Andreas86; 02-19-22 at 09:16 PM.

02-20-22, 12:59 AM	#700
sublynx Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope Posts: 1,698 Downloads: 173 Uploads: 7	I'd like to add three sides to the two sides (West vs. Russia) argument. The fact is that Putin has already managed to occupy Belarus without anybody but the poor people of Belarus noticing. As difficult as it is, the Western powers have an obligation to add ethics to the balance of power problems. If the West pays no thought on what is wrong and what is right, there is no difference between Putin, Xi Jinping or the Western leaders. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS

02-20-22, 08:40 AM	#702
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,084 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	I wouldn't call it a funny feeling, more a weird feeling. The feeling something terrible is going to happen, very soon It makes me wonder if the people in the beginning of sept 1939 had the same feeling-Awaiting the inevitable. They have also expand the exercise in Belarus-Don't know what this mean. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

02-20-22, 09:38 AM	#703
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,636 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Olympics are over now. Now we will see whether there will be a new Tonkin fairytale or not. "Manouvers" in Belarus have been "extended". The Russian troops, war yes or no, have no intention to ever leave Belarus again anyway, I am certain. Belarus again is Russia's now. Putin always wanted iot so, but Lukashenko until the recent rigged election and following riots rejected the intention. Until he had no more choice. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.