Wuhan virus 2020 - Page 450

Skybird · 03-24-21, 04:47 PM

India "temporarily"

suspends export of AZ vaccine, saying it has need for them itself due to rising case numbers.

Rockstar · 03-24-21, 05:08 PM

Greed

or Enlightened Self Interest?

Catfish · 03-24-21, 05:12 PM

^ "Land of hope and glory"

Skybird · 03-24-21, 06:48 PM

August · 03-24-21, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ "Land of hope and glory"

Real funny. Shall we talk about what YOUR land is known for?

Rockstar · 03-24-21, 07:36 PM

So if we go by the above chart then greedy, enlightened self interest capitalism IS good.

Makin' money AND savin' lives

On a side note China may have a vaccine too. But how much you want to bet their government has absolutely interest in ensuring everyone of their citizens is vaccinated?

Catfish · 03-25-21, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Real funny. Shall we talk about what YOUR land is known for?

Oh there are a few positive traits and history, but even so what does this have to do with me? Do i hold you personally accountable for the invention of the Edison bulb, or for centuries of slavery and indian reservations or Guantanamo?

And i do like most of Elgar's works, having one of the Proms' concerts live CD maybe meanwhile i heard it a bit too often. And I was referring to Rockstar's "greed" post as the arrow indicated

I do not think that greed is good, ambition is.

Skybird · 03-25-21, 05:27 AM

Ambition comes not from nothing. Greed can be one of its motivators.

Greed coupled with self control. That is it. Like gas and brake pedal in a car.

Catfish · 03-25-21, 06:02 AM

So you are perfectly ok with the UK and Astra Zenca breaking the treaty?

Fot the umpteenth time: The AZ vaccine delivery commitment of the UK and the EU are exactly the same.

"Where there may be a significant difference is in which markets the drug company is prioritizing. Soriot confirmed to La Repubblica that his company had agreed to supply the UK before other markets, saying it was "fair enough" because the UK had reached an agreement with AstraZeneca earlier than the EU. But the UK's official contract is actually dated August 28, one day after the EU's contract."

Johnson supported this and tried to hide the treaty

"British officials had earlier declined to provide the contract to CNN, making no mention of the redacted version, and have repeatedly refused to give details on the country's vaccine supplies, citing "security reasons." A junior UK government minister said in a recent interview that publishing the contract would risk national security."

So you cheer that one side broke the treaty and proposed a tit for tat, so the EU behave in the same manner. Maybe it should. The yellow press and Murdoch's smear campaigns are up and running anyway, so why not

Skybird · 03-25-21, 06:13 AM

I am not respnsible for the eU's decision to dreamdance through surreally ambitioned negotiations and not payong closest attention to the preicse wording of the treaties it signs.

The UK does, different to the EU, what it has to do to prtect its citiezns and get the stuff into their arms.

Come. What. May.

And thats how it is to be done under these circumstances.

Paper and ink, ideals and ambitions will do nothign for you. Only will power, detemrination and ongoing drive. All of whcih the pltlical actors i berlin and Brussel are terribly lacking - instead demandign the tohers to demaage their citizens so to help decieving their own over our leaderships failure.

You are dreaming of a different world, Catfish. Eat or get eaten. As de Gaulle said: "States have no friends. States have interests." Live with it or protest against it, it does not matter, you will not change it. And the more youn want to reglate things for the beter in your definition, the more you become an evil yourself, not different than that you claim to fight against.

Note that Grmany not only fails in vaccination. We even fail in mass testing now. Nothing works together. We still babble about needing to prepare testing and get started next onth, or the mont after - others already test like crazy, again having us left in the dust.

The brits had a terrible and awful start. Now they lead, and by a huge margin. And thereby make the morally lamenting EU looking ridiculous. Other EU natios have the nose full of it, too, try to cooperate with Israel, China, Russia.

The eU will get out of this all severly damaged and with a huge loss of remaingn trust and a huge growth of scepticism. I like that. Im not sorry.

P.S. You must not endlessly quote that treaty and the times of signing it. I was the first in this forum posting it, when it became known. Still Johnson somehow managed to get the good stuff, and it is not relevant whether he complies with rules or not: becasue he gets his people vaccinated, and that is what must count for any government. You better do not call out the breaking of rules if you have not the power to sanction the breaching of them, you make look yourself pathetic that way.

What I mean is: neither moral nor appeal are repclament for strength and potence to act - no matter what the others does, says, wants, claims. The strong has the degrees of freedom to chose. He can do somehtign or he can choose not to do it. The weak has this decision freedom not, he suffers what he must. And states moral tirades.

I am not one bit surprised that China, Russia, USA, UK play it tough. I never expected anything else than right this.

Catfish · 03-25-21, 07:21 AM

I beg your pardon?
Again EU and UK signed the same treaties with Astra Zeneca, the EU even before. So the UK playing foul is perfectly ok and it is all the EU's fault because it followed signed treaties? Everyone for himself, teeth and claws? Wasn't it you quoting the "pacta sunt servanda"?

The icing on the cake is that the UK received the german vaccine from BionTech before the Astra Zeneca ones, and clown Boris expresses his Schadenfreude. I do not see this as a win for the UK in the long run, not because of a still higher death rate in the UK, but because of trust lost.

How do you think smaller states in the EU would fare if they had tried to negotiate all this alone? It is clear more people in Europe would have died that way. The EU promised to equally spread the vaccine, also to them. It is not a failure of the organisation and distribution, there just is not enough vaccine, and you know why.

Maybe you think it is "nice" that the EU got cheated, but this cheating originated elsewhere, and the world paid close attention. I agree that learning this lesson was necessary, but after all it's the UK Alleingang that causes the problem with the rollout and Astra Zeneca. The treaties, hoarding, "national security" LMAO!
The UK broke the treaty and stole it, nothing to whitewash about this. Learn the lesson.

Skybird · 03-25-21, 07:33 AM

The divcferenc ebetween you and me is that I deal with the world as it is and you deal with your idea of how you think it should be.

It tick much more sober and simple than you presume. To me it snot so much the idea that changes the world, but the deed carried out, and its wanted or unwanted real effects.

And I think this part of our conversations has become repetitive and unproductive.

Meanwhile, and you probably will hate the subject, der Spiegel writes:

British Minister of Health grants preferential treatment from AstraZeneca

"Our contract trumps them": The British health minister has admitted that AstraZeneca privileged his country vis-à-vis the EU. Hancock refers to contract law. The admission comes at a sensitive time: While 29 million apparently hoarded AstraZeneca vaccine doses have been tracked down in Italy, UK Health Secretary Matt Hancock has given his country preferential treatment by the British-Swedish pharmaceutical company. "I believe that free trading nations follow contract law," Hancock told the Financial Times. “Our contract trumps them. It's called contract law and it's clear, «he said, referring to the dispute between the EU and AstraZeneca over the reduced delivery quantities.

The conflict recently intensified again with the discovery of millions of vaccine doses in Italy - and fueled the debate about export bans from the EU. At the beginning of March, Italy blocked the export of AstraZeneca vaccine for the first time and applied a specially created EU export mechanism. The EU has a contract that only guarantees "best efforts" on the part of the vaccine manufacturer, while London has stipulated exclusivity.

Hancock warned Brussels against imposing export restrictions on vaccines. That would be a serious mistake, said the conservative politician. Life sciences companies would move to the UK, not a protectionist EU. "From Great Britain you can export anywhere in the world - we will never put a stop to that."

This attitude fits the hopes of many Brexit supporters of developing London into a "Singapore on the Thames": with strong deregulation of financial market rules and low taxes.

The EU complains that while millions of vaccine doses have been delivered from the continent to Great Britain in the past few months, almost nothing has gone in the opposite direction. Hancock stressed discussions with the EU about this being "cooperative, practice-oriented and collaborative".

The heads of state and government of the EU want to discuss the vaccine shortage on Thursday. AstraZeneca had drastically cut its delivery commitment several times and pointed out difficulties in production. Great Britain is hardly affected by this.

Tja tja. Who slept and who was clever here?
I would absolutely welcome a Singapore at the Thames. Because if anything, this would be what could and must force the EU to change and lower the endless centralization and hyper-regulation (and in Germany: the abstruse over-taxation) inside the EU that gags creativity, entrepreneurship and economic growth more and more, and paralyses everything and everyone. Especially in Germany.

If I were to found a company and had a big business idea - first thing in my plan always would be to flee out of the EU.

Catfish · 03-25-21, 08:27 AM

"Our contract trumps them" read "Me big swinger of bones, you inferior"
In reality: Both signed same contract, published, broken treaty.

"From Great Britain you can export anywhere in the world - we will never put a stop to that."
You can also export anything from the EU, and the UK will not be able to put a stop to that either.

Nothing to object your first part or the rest, especially our sounding like a broken record
But regarding "Singapore on Thames" it seems not all see it that way

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...ining-momentum

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/01...firms-leaving/

https://translate.google.com/transla...ar-sitzen.html

Mr Rees-Mogg shifted his business to South Ireland, Mr. Dyson left and preferred the real Singapore after brexit, but then it's a company and not a bank. But all this is stuff for another thread.

August · 03-25-21, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Is it reasonable to expect people – who by the CDC’s own statistics have a better than 99% chance of surviving a COVID infection, and on top of that have received a 95% effective vaccination – to refrain from living their lives? Are they really supposed to avoid their relatives for another three months, maybe six… who knows, it could even be another year?

The officials and talking heads who push this madness rarely subject themselves to meaningful debates on any of it. There’s just a committee of advisors or experts who gather behind closed doors at public health agencies, and then their pronouncements are treated like gospel by the lockdowners and mask maniacs.

Elected officials (mostly Democrats) then enforce the dictates as though it’s out of their hands. It all feels very Soviet…

One notable exception to this unaccountable power grab came last week up on Capitol Hill. Dr. Fauci appeared before a congressional committee to discuss the issue of mask wearing after vaccination. Some of his exchange with Sen. Rand Paul, who is also an M.D. and has been one of the few true critics of Fauciism, went directly to the absurdity of the “mask up after vaccination” claims…

Sen. Paul: Dr. Fauci, in a recent British study, David Wiley and others found that no symptomatic reinfections from COVID-19 after following 2,800 patients for several months. In fact, there’ve been no reports of significant numbers of reinfections after acquiring COVID-19 naturally.

Given that no scientific studies have shown significant numbers of reinfections of patients previously infected or previously vaccinated, what specific studies do you cite to argue that the public should be wearing masks well into 2022?

Dr. Fauci: I’m not sure I understand the connection of what you’re saying about masks and reinfection. We’re talking about people who have never been infected before.

Sen. Paul: You’re telling everybody to wear a mask, whether they’ve had an infection or a vaccine. What I’m saying is they have immunity and everybody agrees they have immunity. What studies do you have that people that have had the vaccine or have had the infection are spreading the infection? If we’re not spreading the infection, isn’t it just theater?

Dr. Fauci: No, it’s not-

Sen. Paul: If you’ve had a vaccine and you’re wearing two masks, isn’t that theater?

For anyone who’s keeping score… Yes, it’s clearly theater. It’s unreasonable to expect people to live their lives in constant fear, frustration, and inconvenience because there’s a theoretical possibility that breathing air normally will spread a virus to someone even after the person breathing has been vaccinated against that possibility.

The people calling the shots on this are delusional. Recently, the CDC gave some crumbs from the table of our basic freedoms, including that you can visit with other fully vaccinated people indoors without masks or physical distancing. Are we supposed to be grateful for this?

Does anyone in the CDC actually live in America, or do they just go from their bedrooms to their living rooms for appearances on MSNBC? Most normal Americans across the country have already been spending time with family indoors without masks for many months.

This is the result of mass hysteria, created in large part by the mass media… The Democratic party leveraged this to defeat Trump in 2020, and now they want to keep the madness going as long as they can to squeeze even more political benefit from this health policy autocracy.

As a country, we need to get back to some basic truths. Nothing is perfect, there’s no absolute safety… And if the government can take away any of your rights “for your own good,” then you don’t have any rights.

Dr. Fauci and the rest of the lockdown chorus have been a reminder of this, alongside their catastrophic policy failure to stop or contain the virus in the first place. Enough is enough, Fauci needs to go.

https://americanconsequences.com/whe...i-buck-sexton/

Rockstar · 03-25-21, 12:44 PM

I had met the new neighbors yesterday none of us wore masks either AND I shook their hands as I welcomed them. Afterwards we stood around and shot the breeze for about 15 minutes well within 6 feet of each other. They're coming over for dinner tonight. Does that make us anti-science, super spreaders, should we be ashamed of our actions?

NOT

03-24-21, 04:47 PM	#6736
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,633 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	India "temporarily" suspends export of AZ vaccine, saying it has need for them itself due to rising case numbers. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-24-21, 05:08 PM	#6737
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,932 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Greed or Enlightened Self Interest? __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.

03-24-21, 05:12 PM	#6738
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,904 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ "Land of hope and glory" __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

03-24-21, 06:48 PM	#6739
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,633 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	__________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-24-21, 07:36 PM	#6741
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,932 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	So if we go by the above chart then greedy, enlightened self interest capitalism IS good. Makin' money AND savin' lives On a side note China may have a vaccine too. But how much you want to bet their government has absolutely interest in ensuring everyone of their citizens is vaccinated? __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time. Last edited by Rockstar; 03-24-21 at 07:54 PM.

03-25-21, 05:27 AM	#6743
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,633 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Ambition comes not from nothing. Greed can be one of its motivators. Greed coupled with self control. That is it. Like gas and brake pedal in a car. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 03-25-21 at 06:03 AM.

03-25-21, 06:02 AM	#6744
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,904 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	So you are perfectly ok with the UK and Astra Zenca breaking the treaty? Fot the umpteenth time: The AZ vaccine delivery commitment of the UK and the EU are exactly the same. "Where there may be a significant difference is in which markets the drug company is prioritizing. Soriot confirmed to La Repubblica that his company had agreed to supply the UK before other markets, saying it was "fair enough" because the UK had reached an agreement with AstraZeneca earlier than the EU. But the UK's official contract is actually dated August 28, one day after the EU's contract." Johnson supported this and tried to hide the treaty "British officials had earlier declined to provide the contract to CNN, making no mention of the redacted version, and have repeatedly refused to give details on the country's vaccine supplies, citing "security reasons." A junior UK government minister said in a recent interview that publishing the contract would risk national security." So you cheer that one side broke the treaty and proposed a tit for tat, so the EU behave in the same manner. Maybe it should. The yellow press and Murdoch's smear campaigns are up and running anyway, so why not __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

03-25-21, 06:13 AM	#6745
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,633 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I am not respnsible for the eU's decision to dreamdance through surreally ambitioned negotiations and not payong closest attention to the preicse wording of the treaties it signs. The UK does, different to the EU, what it has to do to prtect its citiezns and get the stuff into their arms. Come. What. May. And thats how it is to be done under these circumstances. Paper and ink, ideals and ambitions will do nothign for you. Only will power, detemrination and ongoing drive. All of whcih the pltlical actors i berlin and Brussel are terribly lacking - instead demandign the tohers to demaage their citizens so to help decieving their own over our leaderships failure. You are dreaming of a different world, Catfish. Eat or get eaten. As de Gaulle said: "States have no friends. States have interests." Live with it or protest against it, it does not matter, you will not change it. And the more youn want to reglate things for the beter in your definition, the more you become an evil yourself, not different than that you claim to fight against. Note that Grmany not only fails in vaccination. We even fail in mass testing now. Nothing works together. We still babble about needing to prepare testing and get started next onth, or the mont after - others already test like crazy, again having us left in the dust. The brits had a terrible and awful start. Now they lead, and by a huge margin. And thereby make the morally lamenting EU looking ridiculous. Other EU natios have the nose full of it, too, try to cooperate with Israel, China, Russia. The eU will get out of this all severly damaged and with a huge loss of remaingn trust and a huge growth of scepticism. I like that. Im not sorry. P.S. You must not endlessly quote that treaty and the times of signing it. I was the first in this forum posting it, when it became known. Still Johnson somehow managed to get the good stuff, and it is not relevant whether he complies with rules or not: becasue he gets his people vaccinated, and that is what must count for any government. You better do not call out the breaking of rules if you have not the power to sanction the breaching of them, you make look yourself pathetic that way. What I mean is: neither moral nor appeal are repclament for strength and potence to act - no matter what the others does, says, wants, claims. The strong has the degrees of freedom to chose. He can do somehtign or he can choose not to do it. The weak has this decision freedom not, he suffers what he must. And states moral tirades. I am not one bit surprised that China, Russia, USA, UK play it tough. I never expected anything else than right this. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-25-21, 07:21 AM	#6746
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,904 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I beg your pardon? Again EU and UK signed the same treaties with Astra Zeneca, the EU even before. So the UK playing foul is perfectly ok and it is all the EU's fault because it followed signed treaties? Everyone for himself, teeth and claws? Wasn't it you quoting the "pacta sunt servanda"? The icing on the cake is that the UK received the german vaccine from BionTech before the Astra Zeneca ones, and clown Boris expresses his Schadenfreude. I do not see this as a win for the UK in the long run, not because of a still higher death rate in the UK, but because of trust lost. How do you think smaller states in the EU would fare if they had tried to negotiate all this alone? It is clear more people in Europe would have died that way. The EU promised to equally spread the vaccine, also to them. It is not a failure of the organisation and distribution, there just is not enough vaccine, and you know why. Maybe you think it is "nice" that the EU got cheated, but this cheating originated elsewhere, and the world paid close attention. I agree that learning this lesson was necessary, but after all it's the UK Alleingang that causes the problem with the rollout and Astra Zeneca. The treaties, hoarding, "national security" LMAO! The UK broke the treaty and stole it, nothing to whitewash about this. Learn the lesson. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

03-25-21, 07:33 AM	#6747
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,633 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	The divcferenc ebetween you and me is that I deal with the world as it is and you deal with your idea of how you think it should be. It tick much more sober and simple than you presume. To me it snot so much the idea that changes the world, but the deed carried out, and its wanted or unwanted real effects. And I think this part of our conversations has become repetitive and unproductive. Meanwhile, and you probably will hate the subject, der Spiegel writes: British Minister of Health grants preferential treatment from AstraZeneca "Our contract trumps them": The British health minister has admitted that AstraZeneca privileged his country vis-à-vis the EU. Hancock refers to contract law. The admission comes at a sensitive time: While 29 million apparently hoarded AstraZeneca vaccine doses have been tracked down in Italy, UK Health Secretary Matt Hancock has given his country preferential treatment by the British-Swedish pharmaceutical company. "I believe that free trading nations follow contract law," Hancock told the Financial Times. “Our contract trumps them. It's called contract law and it's clear, «he said, referring to the dispute between the EU and AstraZeneca over the reduced delivery quantities. The conflict recently intensified again with the discovery of millions of vaccine doses in Italy - and fueled the debate about export bans from the EU. At the beginning of March, Italy blocked the export of AstraZeneca vaccine for the first time and applied a specially created EU export mechanism. The EU has a contract that only guarantees "best efforts" on the part of the vaccine manufacturer, while London has stipulated exclusivity. Hancock warned Brussels against imposing export restrictions on vaccines. That would be a serious mistake, said the conservative politician. Life sciences companies would move to the UK, not a protectionist EU. "From Great Britain you can export anywhere in the world - we will never put a stop to that." This attitude fits the hopes of many Brexit supporters of developing London into a "Singapore on the Thames": with strong deregulation of financial market rules and low taxes. The EU complains that while millions of vaccine doses have been delivered from the continent to Great Britain in the past few months, almost nothing has gone in the opposite direction. Hancock stressed discussions with the EU about this being "cooperative, practice-oriented and collaborative". The heads of state and government of the EU want to discuss the vaccine shortage on Thursday. AstraZeneca had drastically cut its delivery commitment several times and pointed out difficulties in production. Great Britain is hardly affected by this. Tja tja. Who slept and who was clever here? I would absolutely welcome a Singapore at the Thames. Because if anything, this would be what could and must force the EU to change and lower the endless centralization and hyper-regulation (and in Germany: the abstruse over-taxation) inside the EU that gags creativity, entrepreneurship and economic growth more and more, and paralyses everything and everyone. Especially in Germany. If I were to found a company and had a big business idea - first thing in my plan always would be to flee out of the EU. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-25-21, 08:27 AM	#6748
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,904 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	"Our contract trumps them" read "Me big swinger of bones, you inferior" In reality: Both signed same contract, published, broken treaty. "From Great Britain you can export anywhere in the world - we will never put a stop to that." You can also export anything from the EU, and the UK will not be able to put a stop to that either. Nothing to object your first part or the rest, especially our sounding like a broken record But regarding "Singapore on Thames" it seems not all see it that way https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...ining-momentum https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/01...firms-leaving/ https://translate.google.com/transla...ar-sitzen.html Mr Rees-Mogg shifted his business to South Ireland, Mr. Dyson left and preferred the real Singapore after brexit, but then it's a company and not a bank. But all this is stuff for another thread. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 03-25-21 at 08:46 AM.*

03-25-21, 12:44 PM	#6750
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,932 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I had met the new neighbors yesterday none of us wore masks either AND I shook their hands as I welcomed them. Afterwards we stood around and shot the breeze for about 15 minutes well within 6 feet of each other. They're coming over for dinner tonight. Does that make us anti-science, super spreaders, should we be ashamed of our actions? NOT __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.