UK Politics Thread

[STEED]

^The worst case scenario no deal no brexit and that raises the question could there be a UKIP big come back? This could be the case again if there is a deal but its a soft brexit. One thing is for sure the odds of a hard brexit have slumped big time, so the last option we walk away without a deal well even that looks slim.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I just heard that the government declaration cannot be read, because (here it comes!) it is written with ink on goatskin, and the drying takes three days. Is that true?

Yes actually, it is very true

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I heard something similar from Mr. Juncker, also that she suffered from delusion. At that time i thought it was him.. but now

Comparing the clown Juncker with the clown Boris would have been a better example.

I'm honestly of the opinion that May, even in a bruised and weakened form commands more respect on the world stage than Juncker and lets be honest here, first minister of the United Kingdom brings a lot more kudos than that given to a self proclaimed king of nothing, even if he does come from that world leader in all things statelike....Luxembourg.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I just heard that the government declaration cannot be read, because (here it comes!) it is written with ink on goatskin, and the drying takes three days. Is that true?

Yep but for the love of peace do not tell the Green Party.


The plot thickens..

'Don't blame the goatskin, the Govenment are using the wrong ink', says vellum maker

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-vellum-maker/

[Catfish]

Thanks for clearing the goatskin question

@Jim regarding May or Juncker.. true from the english point of view. Though the intention of the Eu is that all participating states have the same rights within the EU, so even small Luxembourg with its elected (yes he is) leader has the same say and right as all other bigger) nations.. officially..
No i don't think Juncker is sympathetic, but despite all media bashing i take it he's better than the gossip tries to portray him.
May.. well i am not sure. For England and brexit it is maybe better if she stays and gets all the support, on the other hand she as a person is not necessary for negotiations with the EU. She is the figurehead, but the hard work is done by others who know their stuff well enough. Or so i hope.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by STEED

^The worst case scenario no deal no brexit and that raises the question could there be a UKIP big come back? This could be the case again if there is a deal but its a soft brexit. One thing is for sure the odds of a hard brexit have slumped big time, so the last option we walk away without a deal well even that looks slim.

Wasn't there a high court ruling that she cannot just walk away from parliament either (although that was what originally she wanted) ? Even if she leaves the table at Brussels without a deal, at home she might not get the acceptance for that that she needs, or did I memorize that wrong? I live by the impression that she needs the parliament's acceptance for any outcome she wants to approve.

[STEED]

Juncker back in 2015 seems to be drunk at a European Summit in Riga.

If he every did that to Mrs May it would be more than a few eyebrows raised.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Wasn't there a high court ruling that she cannot just walk away from parliament either (although that was what originally she wanted) ? Even if she leaves the table at Brussels without a deal, at home she might not get the acceptance for that that she needs, or did I memorize that wrong? I live by the impression that she needs the parliament's acceptance for any outcome she wants to approve.

Very complex SKY and with this new weaken government needing the DUP to prop it up the road to Brexit has become even more foggy.


Hope this helps..

Parliament and the Brexit deal

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...nd-brexit-deal

The EU’s role in Brexit negotiations

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...t-negotiations

[STEED]

Veteran Tory MP Ken Clarke says May has to work with Corbyn for a Brexit deal

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit...17-6?r=US&IR=T

Mrs May is without question facing a very tough time, can she work with Labour only time will tell. And one major stumbling block is below in the next link.

Labour rules out working with Theresa May on Brexit until she dumps 'no deal' rhetoric

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7788486.html

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by STEED

Juncker back in 2015 seems to be drunk at a European Summit in Riga.

If he every did that to Mrs May it would be more than a few eyebrows raised.

Yep, he's a real class act....not.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Thanks for clearing the goatskin question

@Jim regarding May or Juncker.. true from the english point of view. Though the intention of the Eu is that all participating states have the same rights within the EU, so even small Luxembourg with its elected (yes he is) leader has the same say and right as all other bigger) nations.. officially..
No i don't think Juncker is sympathetic, but despite all media bashing i take it he's better than the gossip tries to portray him.
May.. well i am not sure. For England and brexit it is maybe better if she stays and gets all the support, on the other hand she as a person is not necessary for negotiations with the EU. She is the figurehead, but the hard work is done by others who know their stuff well enough. Or so i hope.

I really fail to see all that much equality within the EU if I'm to be honest and in particular regarding the differing amounts of contributions paid in by member states and that which is paid out.

Hopefully the negotiations will not turn acrimonious in nature but for that to happen, there are a great many who should leave their comments to the media in particular, better worded.

[STEED]

Tim Farron has stepped down as leader of the Liberal Democrats after the general election.
In a statement, he said he was "torn between living as a faithful Christian and serving as a political leader".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40281300

I found him arrogant and will not miss him, after all in the last six months he only appeared three times at PMQ's. Old Angus former leader of the SNP in the HOC before losing his seat attended and asked questions at every PMQ's.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I really fail to see all that much equality within the EU if I'm to be honest and in particular regarding the differing amounts of contributions paid in by member states and that which is paid out. [...]

And i am tired of the whining how much the UK have to pay, since obviously no one can say for sure how much it is, nor how much it really gets back. Germany also pays a lot of money, as does France. Freedom, ideals but also stalwart advantages like access to the markets or speaking with one major voice towards hegemonial efforts from China or the USA cannot be exactly measured of course, but you could as well describe that as invaluable.

Each and every family in the UK gets more out of the EU than it has to pay. Payments to the EU is around £214 /household (Institute for Fiscal Studies), but the Confederation of British Industry estimates that an EU membership is worth £3,000 for each household. Roughly ten times of what is being paid. And this money comes backthrough lower prices for everyday goods, jobs created, increased investment in the UK and trade not only with EU countries, but through them.

Apart from that nations that are better off, help finance those who are not, for special improvements like a better infrastructure or help in competition, that is and was clear as mud when the UK joined the EU. Which is why e.g. Wales and Scotland and Malta get money. During this time their competition improved but also the personal wealth of their citizens. Is this so bad? Wait for ten years and look at the picture then. Well not anymore now of course.
This has been the idea all the time, and i wonder why people suddenly regain their patriotism as a vehicle to more or less hide xenophobism and hate towards the EU and others.

There seems to be some romantic idea of how great this Empire was and that it will come back just because England will be alone and great again against all instead of working together.
The major advantage of brexit will that someone like Farage cannot blame the EU for everything anymore, and that this woeful EU 'leadership' will change for the better


edit: Sorry i think i just had to vent, bad form. Not a good answer to serious concerns, especially in the light of the latest tragedies. Will not delete it since it is up now for a day and only leads to more confusion.

[Skybird]

The EU does and wants and demands many things that nation's leaders did not have on radar at the time they decided to join (no matter whether their people wnated it or not). My quarrel with the EU is not what it once was about - but what it meanwhile claims wanting to become.

I reject the idea that any "Yes" in the past necessarily must be taken as agreeing to future projects that were not even planned or talked about at the time the first Yes was approved.

If compoanies or banks or insurrances would imply that, they usually get immediate troble and legal challenges from consumer rights protection organisations. These laws exist, for the better of the consumer's protection against such arbitrariness. Just plticians time and again think they stand outside of the laws' and treaties' reach.

Free trade in Europe, okay. More there should never have been. Military cooperation: NATO business. Continental superstate, shared currency, own taxes, enforcing monoculturalism everywhere, erasing different national identities, the own fianncing the mismanagement and debt-rising of th eother: that never was set up to decide on to the people of Europe. Though some - the net receivers may have aimed at getting more money back than they have to put in.

What the EU and what EUrocrats want, in the end is nothign else but total power. That simple it is. Total power. Cultural cleansing. A central planned society, a central planned economy. We allow a totalitarian dictatorship forming up there. Like we have had it before. In the GDR. The USSR. Even the Third Reich'S social and economic order was like this.

And you applaude it. But socialism never can work, since it always ignores inescapable aspects of reality.

The more I have learned about this man, the more I am being impressed and feel great respect for him. Such a sharp mind, but his time witnesses described him always as such a friendly, kind, polite person and a man of utmost humility. Some youtube videos show the old man, and still there he is at the same time so witty, so calm and friendly. - This quotation site is a treasure chest of wisdom for those who do not care to read whole books by him. For a start in book readiong, I necessarily and always will recommend The Road to Serfdom.

http://www.azquotes.com/author/6429-...gust_von_Hayek

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

edit: Sorry i think i just had to vent, bad form. Not a good answer to serious concerns, especially in the light of the latest tragedies. Will not delete it since it is up now for a day and only leads to more confusion.

Alles ist gut