[REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release

[KaleunMarco]

PB,

You and I have had a running discussion on conning tower upgrades for several years now. One of the things that got lost in the conversation a month ago is the fact that while I was driving the Argonaut, we received two conning tower upgrades. The only noticeable difference in my career with the Argo and my previous careers with various boats when no upgrade was received is that I kept my mission score deliberately below 3. And…..I made all boats Class=0 so that there was no possibility of upgrading to a new boat.

To recap that Argo career, it was started mid-42 with tower#2. Then at the proper time(s), the boat received two more upgrades. All missions were completed with a mission score less than three. Not to complicate matters, but we also received higher level medal awards for the crew, which was almost unprecedented. But I digress……

So, I connected the dots of reduced mission score, no boat upgrades and conning tower upgrades.

I started a Gato career, mid-42 with the same install as above, notably, all boats classes set to 0.

We are into mid-44 and no tower upgrades. I should feel sheepish but I do not. Since there are no more scheduled tower upgrades for the Gato, I may end the career and start a new one and see if I cannot provoke another conning tower upgrade.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

PB, You and I have had a running discussion on conning tower upgrades for several years now. One of the things that got lost in the conversation a month ago is the fact that while I was driving the Argonaut, we received two conning tower upgrades. The only noticeable difference in my career with the Argo and my previous careers with various boats when no upgrade was received is that I kept my mission score deliberately below 3. And…..I made all boats Class=0 so that there was no possibility of upgrading to a new boat.
...

Mission Score, Career Rating, Renown Total, etc. None of that matters, only the orange text above in the quote of your post. So long as the player has enough points, and there are no available boat upgrades, then you MIGHT get a new conning tower. There is still a "roll of the dice" involved. But there is almost always a chance for a new boat before there is a chance for a conning tower.

The player should not have to wonder whether they are going to get a new boat, nor whether they will get a new conning tower. It should not be an either/or situation, but a player choice. This is what was good about the SH3 system, in that you purchased your new turm, though people complained because they couldn't earn enough renown for the new turm. What ~SHOULD~ happen in SH4, is that when a player comes in from patrol, and their boat's turn for a new conning tower comes up by date, they should get the new conning tower, whether they have an Excellent, or Poor Rating, shouldn't matter. The player should be given the choice of whether to take a new boat or keep their old one, but should never have to worry about getting their covered wagon cut on a Gato in 1943. Unfortunately, the game does not work like that without intervention such as you're attempting. But a normal player shouldn't have to edit his Save files to get proper functionality, which the editing can be detrimental to the game functioning properly, and is advised against, besides losing the possibility of a new boat altogether with the UpgradeClass edit.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Mission Score, Career Rating, Renown Total, etc. None of that matters, only the orange text above in the quote of your post. So long as the player has enough points, and there are no available boat upgrades, then you MIGHT get a new conning tower. There is still a "roll of the dice" involved. But there is almost always a chance for a new boat before there is a chance for a conning tower.

The player should not have to wonder whether they are going to get a new boat, nor whether they will get a new conning tower. It should not be an either/or situation, but a player choice. This is what was good about the SH3 system, in that you purchased your new turm, though people complained because they couldn't earn enough renown for the new turm. What ~SHOULD~ happen in SH4, is that when a player comes in from patrol, and their boat's turn for a new conning tower comes up by date, they should get the new conning tower, whether they have an Excellent, or Poor Rating, shouldn't matter. The player should be given the choice of whether to take a new boat or keep their old one, but should never have to worry about getting their covered wagon cut on a Gato in 1943. Unfortunately, the game does not work like that without intervention such as you're attempting. But a normal player shouldn't have to edit his Save files to get proper functionality, which the editing can be detrimental to the game functioning properly, and is advised against, besides losing the possibility of a new boat altogether with the UpgradeClass edit.

yeah, i am not editing Save files any more.
too much effort.
i am setting the conditions for the code to do its thing and it would be really great if that GD code would actually be consistent.

do you think that if a conning tower becomes effective (available) 1-1-194x, and a player returns from a mission during that year, that there is possibility that the upgrade will happen?
or
will the upgrade "possibly" happen ONLY when a mission ends early in January of the effective year?

[propbeanie]

Yes. Remember the sequence of events when docking... strangeness in and of itself... First, the Patrol Number counter starts at Zero for One - computer counting. Second of all, say it is January 14, 1942 coming back in, and you "Dock" to "End Patrol". It is all of a sudden January 31, 1942 in the Office, because the game has already assigned you your next mission, and advanced the clock to do the "day before" sailing display on the screen. Once you click on the Wall Map and away you go, you see your Orders and sailing date. While in port during that time, you, your boat and your crew are like in Limbo, basically losing time.

But yes, coming in on the January 14, 1942 example date, if there was a conning tower available on January 1, 1942, then the dice should roll for a chance at that conn, upon your coming in on that day. In fact, if I remember correctly, you get that before you get into the office and get to assign medals and promotions etc. - IF it gives you one. Seems like maybe a 50-50 chance, tops. Again though, just to re-iterate for the audience - if there is a new boat available, the game will ALWAYS default to giving you a new boat first, no matter how old your conning tower is...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Yes. Remember the sequence of events when docking... strangeness in and of itself... First, the Patrol Number counter starts at Zero for One - computer counting. Second of all, say it is January 14, 1942 coming back in, and you "Dock" to "End Patrol". It is all of a sudden January 31, 1942 in the Office, because the game has already assigned you your next mission, and advanced the clock to do the "day before" sailing display on the screen. Once you click on the Wall Map and away you go, you see your Orders and sailing date. While in port during that time, you, your boat and your crew are like in Limbo, basically losing time.

But yes, coming in on the January 14, 1942 example date, if there was a conning tower available on January 1, 1942, then the dice should roll for a chance at that conn, upon your coming in on that day. In fact, if I remember correctly, you get that before you get into the office and get to assign medals and promotions etc. - IF it gives you one. Seems like maybe a 50-50 chance, tops. Again though, just to re-iterate for the audience - if there is a new boat available, the game will ALWAYS default to giving you a new boat first, no matter how old your conning tower is...

ok, let take your example one more step.
say that there is a tower upgrade available for your boat and no boat upgrade available for your boat.
the date is 1/14/42.
you shove off on your next mission, on/about 2/14/42.
you return home on/about 3/7/42.
does your boat have an opportunity to get the tower upgrade as it enters home port?

[KaleunMarco]

hey, PB-ole-buddy, i did as i posted earlier, i started a new career.
driving a Sargo, out of Manila.
managed to survive into March, so we are based in Perth/Fremantle.
just for grins, i clicked on the telephone, the one with the dial (what happened to the display), and there was only one alternative to Perth/Fremantle.
i was wondering if you could help me understand where in Australia the Cavite base is located?

[propbeanie]

Yeah KM, that's one of those "SH4" issues, where you are looking at the Command's "NameDisplayable", and not the base itself. If you go ahead and transfer, you will end up at the base that is active at the time, which might land you at Darwin if before the big Feb 19 bombing, or in your case of March 1942, at Albany in Southern Australia, which lasts until May 16, 1942 when you will transfer to Brisbane in most cases, but maybe Fremantle, being boat dependent. We'll try to come up with a better name for the next version to cover the multiple bases involved. That is associated with the Cavite Start. There is one in there for Mariveles
also, as well as Olongapo...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Yeah KM, that's one of those "SH4" issues, where you are looking at the Command's "NameDisplayable", and not the base itself. If you go ahead and transfer, you will end up at the base that is active at the time, which might land you at Darwin if before the big Feb 19 bombing, or in your case of March 1942, at Albany in Southern Australia, which lasts until May 16, 1942 when you will transfer to Brisbane in most cases, but maybe Fremantle, being boat dependent. We'll try to come up with a better name for the next version to cover the multiple bases involved. That is associated with the Cavite Start. There is one in there for Mariveles
also, as well as Olongapo...

i thought it was funny. bad timing, i guess.

hey i also noticed that there are patrol-missions that state we should be on patrol for 5 days but the bell rings after like 3 1/2 days.
is that purposeful or just a math error calculating patrol-seconds or whatever SH4 uses for patrol length? the latest one i experienced is early in the war, patrol philippines xx, i think, or possibly a Banda Sea patrol. i forget. they seem to be all fungible after so many missions.

[propbeanie]

Purposeful. The Asiatic boats especially early were moved from location to location willy-nilly, in a vain attempt to stop the onslaught with really bad torpedoes and tactics.

You'll run into similar later when lifeguarding comes online and a patrol mission will be interrupted for lifeguarding.

[torpedobait]

In each of my last 2 careers, when going out of Brisbane in Gato in mid-t0-late 1943, I received a radio message inviting me to transfer to a new special ops group to run out of Darwin. However, Darwin subsequently does not come up as a transfer option after returning to port.

Is this a time-sensitive thing, or is the invite only for show?

[torpedobait]

I was fortunate enough to visit Truk Lagoon and get away with it. But while there on 9/14/43 in Gato out of Brisbane, at an anchorage spot just off Moen, I found a cluster of IJN ships jammed together (especially the two escort carriers.

There were 2 BB's (Nagato and Fuso), two escort carriers (Taigo and Shoho), several Kajairo destroyers, and a single Takao heavy cruiser.

Got credit for sinking the two BB's, both Escort carriers, and the Takao. The DD's went down after being damaged by explosions on the bigger ships, so no credit there.

I really appreciated the easy targets and tonnage, but I think there should only be on battle group there, not what seemed to be two. Might be a timing issue?

[KaleunMarco]

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=239471

hedging my bets........

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

In each of my last 2 careers, when going out of Brisbane in Gato in mid-t0-late 1943, I received a radio message inviting me to transfer to a new special ops group to run out of Darwin. However, Darwin subsequently does not come up as a transfer option after returning to port.

Is this a time-sensitive thing, or is the invite only for show?

It is time-sensitive, but also, the Gato is not part of assignments given (Salmon & Sargo, in addition to the cruiser boats). If based at Fremantle, there are a few Gato assignments for specific missions, including a couple via DynamicMiss, if you are in the area of the assignments (such as a Timor rescue). The game does not allow specific "addressing" of boats unfortunately, hence the "blanket" messages to all boats. It looks like the devs intended to be able to do that, but never finished the "messaging" for that.

Originally Posted by torpedobait

I was fortunate enough to visit Truk Lagoon and get away with it. But while there on 9/14/43 in Gato out of Brisbane, at an anchorage spot just off Moen, I found a cluster of IJN ships jammed together (especially the two escort carriers.

There were 2 BB's (Nagato and Fuso), two escort carriers (Taigo and Shoho), several Kajairo destroyers, and a single Takao heavy cruiser.

Got credit for sinking the two BB's, both Escort carriers, and the Takao. The DD's went down after being damaged by explosions on the bigger ships, so no credit there.

I really appreciated the easy targets and tonnage, but I think there should only be on battle group there, not what seemed to be two. Might be a timing issue?

September of 1943 is when the IJN was paralyzed, unable to decide where to go next, so there are actually 3 groups in there at that time, co-mingled together. Once the Tarawa landings start, the groups start to head west for Tawi Tawi, Palau and/or Lingga Roads by Singapore... There is supposed to be a heavy response to the presence of a US sub in Truk, and you should be found and sunk prior to being able to attack... apparently, the local commander has failed us once again, and will have to be disciplined accordingly...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

apparently, the local commander has failed us once again, and will have to be disciplined accordingly...

i volunteer to administer said-discipline.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

i volunteer to administer said-discipline.