Titanic firm submersible missing. - Page 3

AVGWarhawk · 06-20-23, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

"X Box Game Controller."

There is a reason why even a simple flip switch or a simple to-press-button for airliner cockpits cost several hundred dollars per piece.

And back in the late 90s when I had a PS1, one controller for it once stopped working in my hands while playing. Just so, out of the blue. Never came online again.

The whole concept for that "submarine" sounds incredibly irresponsible. German newspaper said that passengers must sign statements that they understand that the boat is unlicensed, has not undergone any technical inspection, and that the operator cannot be held responsible for any damage to passengers, injuries, psychological traumata and stress consequences.

Who wants to dive in such a thing - and even pays for it...?

It is incredibly irresponsible! These people signed their own death sentence. Such a shame.

mapuc · 06-20-23, 10:21 AM

Even though the sub should have been sending signal to it's mothership on the surface.

Markus

Aktungbby · 06-20-23, 11:09 AM

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...sing-video-spt

Quote:

Speaking of his experience, Mr Pogue said: “It's about the size of a minivan… There's a rudimentary toilet, which amounts to little more than a couple of ziplock bags. And of course, they all brought snacks.”

He said a lot of the interior of the vessel would “sound very janky to a lot of people — a lot of this submersible was made from off-the-shelf improvised parts.”

He went on: “For example, you control it with an XBox Game Controller. Some of the ballast are these abandoned lead pipes from construction sites and the way you ditch them is everybody gets to one side of the sub, and they roll off a shelf.”

However, he added: “The guy who built the sub told me yeah, that stuff's all kind of janky but the important thing, like the capsule that contains the people in the air, that was co-designed with NASA and the University of Washington. The part that keeps you alive is rock solid. ”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...nic-sub-expert

Quote:

Another scenario is a leak in the pressure hull, in which case the prognosis is not good, he said.

He explained: “If it has gone down to the seabed and can’t get back up under its own power, options are very limited.

“While the submersible might still be intact, if it is beyond the continental shelf, there are very few vessels that can get that deep, and certainly not divers.”

Even if they could go that deep, he doubted they could attach to the hatch of OceanGate's submersible, which is made of titanium and filament wound carbon fibre, and which weights 20,000lbs when out of the water.

Just the ziplock bag toilet

with curtain would have precluded my indulgance; along with eight hours spent on these old knees...

Then again, nuthing "cutting-edge" for it's time goes outta style...ie: CSA Hunley 1864>

ET2SN · 06-20-23, 11:21 AM

I was holding off until more info came out.
I know they used it on at least one previous dive.
Never mind the XBox controller part, the key (IMO) was what kind of turn-around maint. they did between dives?

Were the seals replaced and valves tested, etc?
Or, was this just another "Dip-a-dope" racket?

Bera · 06-20-23, 12:52 PM

Does this death machine have ballast tanks? How does depth control work?

Rockstar · 06-20-23, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bera

Does this death machine have ballast tanks? How does depth control work?

According to a journalist's inquiry into its operation. "Some of the ballast are these abandoned lead pipes from construction sites and the way you ditch them is everybody gets to one side of the sub, and they roll off a shelf.”

A lot of good that system would do if you're stuck in the mud.

Bera · 06-20-23, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

According to a journalist's inquiry into its operation. "Some of the ballast are these abandoned lead pipes from construction sites and the way you ditch them is everybody gets to one side of the sub, and they roll off a shelf.”

A lot of good that system would do if you're stuck in the mud.

Is this a joke or are you serious?

AVGWarhawk · 06-20-23, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bera

Is this a joke or are you serious?

Judging by the other materials and less than stellar hardware used to create this sarcophagus it would not surprise me.

Bera · 06-20-23, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bera

Is this a joke or are you serious?

No, he´s not joking:

https://www.insider.com/people-missi...t-guard-2023-6

However, since it is a very simple method to get it afloat, makes me think that the submarine somehow imploded before they could ever do something to resurface.

ET2SN · 06-20-23, 01:36 PM

Don't fixate on the simple design.

With deep submergence, you want a very simple design to minimize cascade failures.

You also want a very experienced crew for when things go wrong.

Skybird · 06-20-23, 01:48 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65960217

I dont get it. Not certificated because it is experimental (=in development) and they do not want authorities to hinder the speed of progress - but nevetheless taking passengers...?

And look at that diagram of the inside. No windows, just in front for the pilot a little lookout. Yes, I know deep diving submerisbale are built like this, only small outlooks. But why does anyone not beign scientist or technician havign a professional need for the trip want to book a ride in this thing? I dont get it, but okay...

If it was able to get back to the surface, it may still be mostyl submersed, hovering in and under the ocean surface with only a tiny bit sticking out of the water, so it will still be difficult to find, but then there is at least a chance that their lives can be saved.

But if it is on the ground, I hope for all onboard that they are already dead, else there is nightmare ahead of them. And obviously nobody has a clue how to get the boat up from 4000. No chance, it seems.

Also, it wanted to visit the Titanic, so likely has started the decent in the close vicinity of the wreck. So if the sub sank, it must have landed on or near the Titanic, most likely - making not a single sonar operator in the world happy.

mapuc · 06-20-23, 02:23 PM

Whether they are alive or dead, most likely dead by now, the sub must be found. There are submersible who can dive deeper than 4000 meters and I hope one of few of these is on its way.

If the sub has imploded then I wonder how much there's left of it.

Markus

Skybird · 06-20-23, 02:45 PM

I am confused a bit, I saw photographs of the submersible, but they show two different kinds of fronts, one is a metal bubble with a tiny glass bowl, the other has replaced the former metal bubble completely with glass, giving much more visibility for the crew. What is the case now? Big or small "window"?

ET2SN · 06-20-23, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

If the sub has imploded then I wonder how much there's left of it.

Markus

Its all there, just in very small pieces.

Skybird · 06-20-23, 05:38 PM

Der Spiegel has an interview with a German business man who was in that sub two years ago. The interview is behind a paywall and from there cannot be copied into a translator, sorry.

The man says this: he paid 110,000 Euros, and if the trip down would be impossible due to the weather being too bad, you do not get your money back. He now calls his trip a "Himmelfahrtskommando", the submersible was in a not good shape, as I understand, and when the mothership deboarded the sub and it was in the water, ballast weights became loose and had to be fixed again, which took 1,5 hours (with the crew locked inside already. The three Americans he was with, looked at the sub and said all three "We do not dive with that thing." (Bravo!!) And they didn'T, and their money was gone but they stayed outside, safe. The descent down to the Titanic was in darkness, since lights were switched off to save power. The batteries caused problems notoriously, he said, having prevented many trips by other ~~suicide candidates~~ tourists. . Just the day before his own trip, a dive was cancelled because there were technical problems. He further said that the situation on board must be a nightmare, because al space is so tight, the darkness, the cold (the smell, I would add).

Rockstar called it a diving coffin. And thats what it is. Why do people actually go aboard such a thing? I dont get it.

https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/tita...5-c96e3b16cb13

06-20-23, 10:21 AM	#32
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,059 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Even though the sub should have been sending signal to it's mothership on the surface. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

06-20-23, 01:48 PM	#41
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,631 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65960217 I dont get it. Not certificated because it is experimental (=in development) and they do not want authorities to hinder the speed of progress - but nevetheless taking passengers...? And look at that diagram of the inside. No windows, just in front for the pilot a little lookout. Yes, I know deep diving submerisbale are built like this, only small outlooks. But why does anyone not beign scientist or technician havign a professional need for the trip want to book a ride in this thing? I dont get it, but okay... If it was able to get back to the surface, it may still be mostyl submersed, hovering in and under the ocean surface with only a tiny bit sticking out of the water, so it will still be difficult to find, but then there is at least a chance that their lives can be saved. But if it is on the ground, I hope for all onboard that they are already dead, else there is nightmare ahead of them. And obviously nobody has a clue how to get the boat up from 4000. No chance, it seems. Also, it wanted to visit the Titanic, so likely has started the decent in the close vicinity of the wreck. So if the sub sank, it must have landed on or near the Titanic, most likely - making not a single sonar operator in the world happy. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 06-20-23 at 02:29 PM.

06-20-23, 02:23 PM	#42
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,059 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Whether they are alive or dead, most likely dead by now, the sub must be found. There are submersible who can dive deeper than 4000 meters and I hope one of few of these is on its way. If the sub has imploded then I wonder how much there's left of it. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

06-20-23, 02:45 PM	#43
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,631 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I am confused a bit, I saw photographs of the submersible, but they show two different kinds of fronts, one is a metal bubble with a tiny glass bowl, the other has replaced the former metal bubble completely with glass, giving much more visibility for the crew. What is the case now? Big or small "window"? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-20-23, 05:38 PM	#45
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,631 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Der Spiegel has an interview with a German business man who was in that sub two years ago. The interview is behind a paywall and from there cannot be copied into a translator, sorry. The man says this: he paid 110,000 Euros, and if the trip down would be impossible due to the weather being too bad, you do not get your money back. He now calls his trip a "Himmelfahrtskommando", the submersible was in a not good shape, as I understand, and when the mothership deboarded the sub and it was in the water, ballast weights became loose and had to be fixed again, which took 1,5 hours (with the crew locked inside already. The three Americans he was with, looked at the sub and said all three "We do not dive with that thing." (Bravo!!) And they didn'T, and their money was gone but they stayed outside, safe. The descent down to the Titanic was in darkness, since lights were switched off to save power. The batteries caused problems notoriously, he said, having prevented many trips by other ~~suicide candidates~~ tourists. . Just the day before his own trip, a dive was cancelled because there were technical problems. He further said that the situation on board must be a nightmare, because al space is so tight, the darkness, the cold (the smell, I would add). Rockstar called it a diving coffin. And thats what it is. Why do people actually go aboard such a thing? I dont get it. https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/tita...5-c96e3b16cb13 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-20-23, 11:21 AM	#34
ET2SN ET2/SS Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 2,547 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	I was holding off until more info came out. I know they used it on at least one previous dive. Never mind the XBox controller part, the key (IMO) was what kind of turn-around maint. they did between dives? Were the seals replaced and valves tested, etc? Or, was this just another "Dip-a-dope" racket?

06-20-23, 12:52 PM	#35
Bera Gunner Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: São Paulo, Brazil Posts: 95 Downloads: 103 Uploads: 0	Does this death machine have ballast tanks? How does depth control work?

06-20-23, 01:36 PM	#40
ET2SN ET2/SS Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 2,547 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Don't fixate on the simple design. With deep submergence, you want a very simple design to minimize cascade failures. You also want a very experienced crew for when things go wrong.