Steel Beasts Pro Personal Edition - Resources

[murkz]

Skybird, did you ever create a WW2 mission using you're above settings?

[murkz]

[smithcorp]

Here's a couple of mine...

[stringy]

I am trying to purchase SBproPE at the offer price of $85 but cannot get through to the credit card verification. I have left a message on the site but as yet no reply anybody else having a problem with the esim store?

I am UK based but I am sure that is not the problem.

Update: Problem solved seemed to be an issue with Firefox

[porphy]

Playable T-72 coming to SB Pro PE with next uppgrade, that is 2.6.

[Spike88]

I'm interested in trying Steel Beasts Pro, despite the high price, and the $20 dollar patches, but i have a few questions first:

1. Is the inside of the tank(s) clickable, or is it all keyboard shortcuts?

2. How obtrusive is the little dongle required?

3. Is there start up sequences for the tank(s)? Or are they always on?

4. Are all the functions of the tanks modeled?

5. Are there random failures?

[Gerald]

@ Smithlanger! Welcome to SubSim

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by Spike88

1. Is the inside of the tank(s) clickable, or is it all keyboard shortcuts?

Some buttons are clickable but majority of things is done via shortcurts and mouse because that's the only viable solution to fight in all tanksims. You can attach joystick if you wish.

Originally Posted by Spike88

2. How obtrusive is the little dongle required?

Very obtrusive! Think about parallel port dongles - where are they today? You will be able to play this game until computers with USB ports will be in stores. If you have more software with such form of copy protection (fortunately which is unlikely), you can be in trouble in the future due to lack of USB ports available or mess with many dongles. Additionally dongle may constitute large portion of SBPro PE final price.

Originally Posted by Spike88

3. Is there start up sequences for the tank(s)? Or are they always on?

Basically - Engine On/Off. Driving simulation is very basic or even non-existent. No engine start procedures or whatsoever. Playing as a commander or gunner you can drive tank using WSAD-like keymapping exactly as on driver's position. Driver's view is also very obscure and identical in all crewable vehicles. I think games like SFK42 and TvT have more driver's functionality implemented.

Originally Posted by Spike88

4. Are all the functions of the tanks modeled?

All functions? Nope, buddy. SBPro is basically a PC tank shooter training software selling as an off-shot of its military version for civilian market. Thus you have fire control system and observation devices implemented on gunner's and commander's positions. That is almost all. Don't expect something like Ka-50 and A-10C cockpit functionality found in DCS series.

Originally Posted by Spike88

5. Are there random failures?

Something like that is present but I don't think it is very important here.


Besides be careful about several facts about SBPro PE:

- its graphic engine is very dated so it looks nowhere near to present PC games. No shadows, maybe still some sprites, no suspension effects in moving tanks, I am not sure about weather effects. So don't be surprised.

- there is no campaign, career mode or similar single-player features. You have only independent single missions to play and mission editor to make your own scenarios. AFAIK map editor is not fully functional in civilian version.

- there is multi-player over LAN and on the Internet (you have to know host IP address)

- vast majority of playable vehicles do not possess interior graphics. Therefore you can only operate them seeing via various sights, visors and in unbuttoned commander's position.

- I personally strongly doubt SBPro PE as a product for civilian market realistically replicates capabilities and performance of most modern military stuff present in this sim (Leo-2A5, M1A2 etc.) like ammunition power, armor protection, thermal sights range viewing through different obstacles, because they are top secret data after all.

- the game alone costs 125 bucks (boxed version with printed manual). However remember next there are also payware upgrades costing 20-30 bucks apiece. I don't know how many of them was released in the past five years but you should calculate this too before purchasing SBPro PE.

[Gorshkov]

- as for interior graphics it's present basically inside those vehicles only: Abrams, Leopard-2, Leopard-1A5, T-72M1 tanks and Bradley, CV90, Pizarro IFVs and Centauro reconnaissance vehicle. So it's vast minority of playable stuff...that is not important for military users but I think for hardcore tanksim enthusiasts it can be an important issue.

- while it is true new customers do not pay for previous upgrades what I'd like to underline is new customers will be charged for next payware upgrades that are not cheap! As one can see price of two payware upgrades (patches) released so far constitutes about a half of SBPro PE unit price.

- referring to SBPro versus SBPro PE I still strongly doubt both are almost the same product because one SBPro desktop license costs military customers 1800 USD (derived from fact that price of SBPro classroom license for ten desktops is 18000 USD) while price of SBPro PE individual license is only 100-125 USD . I do not think eSim sells identical product more than ten times cheaper on civilian market...I suppose SBPro PE includes opensource i.e. not very realistic or even misleading data while SBPro can be modified by military users with their own realistic data.

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The reason that PE exists is that they gave up on SB2 which was played as a dedicated developement for the game market, and, in the words of their technical director, they now just do not stop the civilian customer to buy what basically is the military's toy.

And that is exactly what I am afraid of - no military will pay such a high price for...a toy! Civilian enthusiasts paying fifteen times less...maybe?

Originally Posted by Skybird

But so many of the major vehicles of interest are playable and have cockpits right now, so - what is the point? I play just the same two or three vehicles since 5 years!

The point is not everyone is obliged to follow your way of playing SBPro PE.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Doing a quick counting:
There are 20 MBTs and light tanks, of which 11 are crewable and 8 have virtual cockpits.

You forgot two Abrams tank variants (M1, M1A1HA) have the same cockpit and three Leo-2 tank variants (DK, Strv122, Leopardo-2E) also have the same cockpit.

Originally Posted by Skybird

There are 23 IFVs and APCs, of which 15 are crewable and 7 have virtual cockpits.

You also forgot four of those seven IFVs are CV90 derivatives.

Originally Posted by Skybird

So... what sim out there, no matter the genre, offers so many different well-simulated platforms?

SFK42 with free mods offers plenty of playable tanks.

Originally Posted by Skybird

The price. eSim said on release in early Spring 2006 that they plan to do updates on a regular basis, and do the initial updates for free, but cannot afford to run the work for upgrades all for free for unlimited time.

Today, in Germany a new standard PC game costs 39 or 49 Euros, that is currently 51 and 64 dollars. Often, these games last only some weeks and months on the HD when they are good, and when you made a bad choice, you kill them after just some days. SBP players for the most run the sim regularly over years.

Not sure who else pays 125 bucks for six years old game (except cumulative cost of subscription of some MMO games)...

Originally Posted by Skybird

Since this sim is no simulated ammunition testing environment and no virtual laboratory for explosives, this probably simply is not inside the military's focus of interest.

What is very strange taking into consideration proper simulation of tank battles on tactical level is impossible without realistic and unfortunately top secret data. Otherwise result of such battles is purely fictional and thus offering no tactical experience.

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by Skybird

They do pay. in a dozen nations. It is a save bet they do not waste that kmoney on a purpose they are not cionvinced of. Hell, they even order addtions to the packages that they got.

Yes, but you still cannot notice military users most probably pay much more for completely different tank-sim than civilian users.

Originally Posted by Skybird

The Abrams share the same cockpit because principally the M1A1 and the M1A1HA share the same design.

So count them as one cockpit. The same applies to M2A2 and M2A3 Bradleys - that's also one cockpit.

Originally Posted by Skybird

On the Leopard-2, you are wrong. All Leopard-2s (A4, A5DK, Strv-122, 2-E,) in the game have different cockpits, though sharing many design features, since they are the same family. But some aspects function and are designed quite different. TC override in the A4 workjs very different than in the other Leopards. The A5 has no digitised map. The 122 has different GSS, the 2E also, I recall. And so on. protection values are different for the armnour. Gun is different. Ammo is. Sorry, this is not about science fiuction ideas of future tanks, but about modelling the real counterparts. It is four diferent tanks. And four different cockpits.

Nope, buddy! You are - possibly intentionally - wrong because I did not mentioned Leopard-2A4 but only Leopard-2A5 clones. Their cockpits are almost identical except tactical map display which is anyway accessible in other tanks too by pressing F5 key. Moreover I don't know why you mentioned their guns and armor differences because all that has noting in common with interior graphics. Simply stop seeking artificial arguments to improve poor interior numbers available in SBPro PE vehicles.

Originally Posted by Skybird

While the CV-9040 Bravoi and Charly are quite close, the CV9035 and CV9030 look and function quite differently, have different interiors, different handling, and different procedures from programming that highly sophisticated ammunition they use.

Yet those four "different" vehicles are basically variants of the same IFV. I suppose it is clear to you, isn't it? Of course marketing strategy advice to create as many "different" vehicle types as possible but customers should know they are not different models. Maybe instead of introducing tenth CV90 variant into this game eSim should think about modeling interiors of dozens of playable, yet still "internally castrated", vehicles?

Originally Posted by Skybird

I had that title, as well as Steel fury. Both did not coinvince me. They are gamish, and partially heavily flawed in functionality. I had a draft posted with a review of SF. Neal never released the final version since the reaction to my listing of its weaknesses caused so many hostilities. The draft is still somewhere on this site. Especially the terrible sound engine, the bad AI and the often suicidal path finding caught my antipathy. The tanks themselves felt not likm, tanks, but like light matchbox toys. And the two occaisons I saw TvT on someobody elser'S system, did not made me break out in hooray, too. None iof that compared to the immersion and realism one gets from a well-written SBP scenario, or as they also point out: multiplayer.

We are not interested in your review of Graviteam games. You asked about any other game possessing many playable vehicles and I provided you with such title. You cannot disagree SFK42 with modes offers plenty of playable armored vehicles so you have started some rant about how bad SFK is. I think the "worst" is SFK42 mods are free while SBPro patches are heavily priced. That fact you cannot deny!

Originally Posted by Skybird

2.640 is not even two months old. The graphics engine is old, the sim is new.

Nope, buddy. SBPro 2.640 patch is a month old. Don't mix up games with game patches...

Originally Posted by Skybird

You may want to discuss that with those incompetent defense ministries willing the costs for buying that useless and fictional stuff that offers no tactcial experience. Heck, the Austraölians were even so insane to equip all members of their tank troops with copies of the sim, for training purposes. They muist all be dumb and not knowing their stuff, else they would not waste their time with this useless game and burn hundreds of thousands of dollars over it.

You still cannot spot what is my point. So my point is I strongly suspect military customers buy professional tanksim paying fifteen times more than civilian enthusiasts paying 125 bucks for significantly stripped down and open-sourced toy.

Originally Posted by Skybird

But some of the info you give here, simply is wrong and misleading, and unfair, and I cannot help but think that on a few occasions you even started hairsplitting just to try to give it a bad name.

Now you really sound like salesman...

Originally Posted by Skybird

SBP has deficits, and features they want to include, but still had no resource and time free to include. But I stick to it, and SBP users agree with me there: what you already get right now beats hands down any 3D mechanised ground warfare simulation on the market, and brings you as close to the tactics and realities of tank warfare as you can get on PC today. [...]
Point is that there are no showstopping issues or design flaws - and that'S what makes a difference to many others.

I don't even have to try SBPro PE to rebut your claims. SBPro PE users made it themselves! I have only needed to look at eSim forum to find out that. For instance in this thread many users complain that armor modeling of lightly armored vehicles is a derision. So eSim guys to rebuff them provided users with their BMP-1 frontal armor estimated thickness. Yet eSim guys included...engine as a part of frontal armor thickness! That finally proves PE game is a childish toy made for people knowing nothing about military hardware.

Now I think brand-new Graviteam production - Steel Armor: Blaze of War - is much superior to SBPro overpriced oldie. It has much much better graphics and wonderful tactical commanding experience intelligently linked with advanced tank simulation. Let's wait for free SA:BoW mods and multiplayer patch. Then we will say goodbye to eSim toy. During Christmas Holidays you could buy SA:BoW for only...15 bucks!

I don't see any reason to continue this discussion with Skybird. I am sure other forum members will be able to draw right conclusions about SBPro PE game after reading this thread.

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by Skybird

For the lazy heads, again: an upgrade adds new content and improves the functionality and/or scope of existing stuff. A patch just fixes broken issues in existing stuff, and does bug-fixing.

For the lazy heads once again: Why to wait a year for free patch that will address bugs introduced by payware patch you bought before? Isn't it too funny? Why to wait a year to be able to kill "panzer-engined" BMP without emptying all ammo loadout in your IFV?

Live needn't necessarily be so complicated! Here you are brand-new Steel Armor: Blaze of War - realistic tactical and simulation experience with stunning graphics costing you only...30 bucks! Remember - you will not be charged for patches. All patches will be free! Also multiplayer feature will be most possibly added! Next - in accordance with previous Graviteam's games tradition - free mods will follow transforming SA:BoW into a new benchmark of tanksim games. Do you really need anything else??? Of course not!

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Maybe you want to work on your aiming precision. The BMP can be stopped and killed from front right now. You only need to learn where to aim.

Yes, you cannot aim at ridiculous BMP's "panzer-engine" which is inflammable after hit! On the opposite this engine transforms majority of BMP frontal armor into equivalent of tank frontal armor. Do you ever hear about engine as part of frontal armor plate thickness calculations??? Moreover BMP fuel tanks also seems to be immune to enemy fire. That's essence of "reality for civilians" found in SBPro PE toy.

Originally Posted by Skybird

When you call THAT realistic, then this explains most of the nonsense you are blasting away.

Of course, because in "realistic" SBPro PE toy even hundreds of anti-armor DU rounds are not enough to kill BMP. I am sure you won't find anything like that in "Steel Armor: Blaze of War" - now premiere tank simulation software featuring modern tank warfare at tactical level!

Originally Posted by Skybird

And check an IT expert to explain to you the difference between a patch and an upgrade.

Obviously 30 bucks worth "upgrades" you will be charged after buying SBPro PE toy for 125 bucks are OK, because each "upgrade" costs you exactly the same amount of money as brand-new and stunning "Steel Armor: Blaze of War" - new benchmark of tank simulation software.

You know - that's "an upgrade", not a patch! So don't hesitate any longer and buy "an upgrade" at once! Later wait for...FREE patches bug-fixing your "upgrade".

[Gorshkov]

Hi, guys!

Another SBPro PE flaws have just surfaced after latests pay-ware patch release! Read this thread on eSim forum:

It looks like not only BMP armor is a derision in this SB Pro PE toy but Challenger-2 tank overall capabilities, too! Its engine is very weak like some car engine, so this tank cannot keep up even with APCs! Additionally Challenger-2 cannot kill anything above T-72 and is on par with this ancient Soviet tank. In real life Challenger-2 is one of the best tanks worldwide - without any doubt!

Challenger-2 firepower is ridiculously weak in SBPro PE toy while in reality it possesses one of the best L-27/L-28 APFSDS rounds on this planet.

What eSim guy told customers on their forum is a clear idiocy! He "thinks" that armor penetration of old Soviet gun-launched "Reflex B" ATGM is 1300 mm. That is obviously not true - this ATGM has...almost two times lower penetration! Additionally this guy stated "SB, through some helpful information and educated assumptions from tankers, seemingly exposes those [Challenger-2] flaws " supposedly secretly guarded by British Army!

What a joke! What else will they figure out to rebuff customers??? It looks like entire armor protection model is broken in this toy, probably after applying 2.640 payware patch worth...30 bucks. Now premiere Western tank is very weak, and Eastern stuff rules thanks to silly too powerful ammunition and "panzer-engined armor improvements". Of course one should know today Western armor is way better than old Soviet gear but eSim guys don't care about such "subtle differences". However it is quite "understandable" - magical "game balance" is most important feature in all console games and...now also "military grade tank-sims for civilian market" sold for 125 bucks!

It seems they introduced first playable Soviet tank and subsequently "tuned down" Western stuff capabilities not to doom to certain defeat new T-72M1 drivers playing this toy...

That's way now it's time to try "STEEL ARMOR: BLAZE OF WAR" - brand-new realistic and well-documented tank simulation software! In the basic package you'll get two historically balanced and carefully chosen tanks: Soviet T-62 and American M60A1. Now you can fight each other with full accordance with historical and technical realities - each tank has its own pros and cons but both are very-well suited for balanced tank battles on tactical scale.

In 2012 we can forget about ancient overpriced sim-toys, now we can experience real and beautifully looking tank-sims!

[Sledgehammer427]

Gorshkov, you have a PM.