2016 US Presidential election thread

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by August

How about just one thread titled "US Politics Thread". If that's good enough for the Brits it should be good enough for us.

Sounds good to me and after having discusseded with Neal a 'US Politics' thread (similar to that of the UK which is already in existence) will be opened after the presidential vote counting has taken place.

I'm certainly no expert on politics in the US but my current understanding is that the vote ends on 19th December (give or take a day or so) which means this thread will close and the new one will be opened for whatever political discussion people are wanting to engage in.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...21#post2449921

[August]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Yeah, but have you poured any hot liquid on that magnet? eh? eh?

I had to read this in the morning. Now I have to wait all day to go home and try it out!

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Screw high taxes, the govt just squanders the money we work for.

But who is going to pay for your education system, military (!!!), law enforcement, firefighters, roads etc... All that costs money. Your country already had to raise that debt ceiling couple of times if memory serves right so how do you want to pay for all that with lowered taxes or giving big corporations total tax cuts? Taxes must be reasonable yes, but they also must cover the costs.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

But who is going to pay for your education system, military (!!!), law enforcement, firefighters, roads etc... All that costs money. Your country already had to raise that debt ceiling couple of times if memory serves right so how do you want to pay for all that with lowered taxes or giving big corporations total tax cuts? Taxes must be reasonable yes, but they also must cover the costs.

Local police and fire are paid by county, city and state they are serving. Education in part is also paid by county, city and state these schools are located. There is Federal aid of course but not the sole provider.

Now, we keep 1000 jobs for folks who are paying taxes to the Fed/State plus other goods and services because the people are working. This tax pays police/fire and schools. Take away these 1000 jobs and those taxes once collected are now gone. Further, these folks are now collecting unemployment. It would seem to me that keeping people working is much better than putting them on the unemployment rolls, losing homes and on the streets.

Covering costs? Yes, reign in government overspending and not good stewardship of the tax payers money. It is a good place to start.

[AVGWarhawk]

BTW, there was a good question posed concerning the Carrier deal and keeping the plant open. Trump being only the President Elect, did he have the power/right to make the deal? The answer is Gov Pence made the deal for his state where this Carrier plant is located.

Jim earmarked a thread titled US Politic Thread. I think we are going see a very interesting 4 years.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Local police and fire are paid by county, city and state they are serving. Education in part is also paid by county, city and state these schools are located. There is Federal aid of course but not the sole provider.

Now, we keep 1000 jobs for folks who are paying taxes to the Fed/State plus other goods and services because the people are working. This tax pays police/fire and schools.

I was talking about taxes in general regardless of wether it's fed taxes, state taxes or county taxes.

Take away these 1000 jobs and those taxes once collected are now gone.
Further, these folks are now collecting unemployment. It would seem to me that keeping people working is much better than putting them on the unemployment rolls, losing homes and on the streets.

In other words all taxes should exclusively being paid by the working class. Corporations now have a nice precedent to not pay taxes at all. "Give me a tax break or I'll move elsewhere..."
Where do you draw the line there? No taxes and wages on one level with China because if you don't take Chinese wages we'll move elsewhere...?
That can't be the answer either.

Covering costs? Yes, reign in government overspending and not good stewardship of the tax payers money. It is a good place to start.

A good point on which I totally agree. But we know it won't happen. People have been complaining about that for centuries, perhaps millennia and nothing ever made it happen regardless of who was in power....
I'm all for reasonable taxes. Nobody should be taxed into poverty or having his achievements negated by taxes but those who can lift more weight than others should also contribute a bit more than those who can't. To not contribute at all while swimming in cash isn't fair towards the average john Doe who has to pay taxes to keep the show going.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I was talking about taxes in general regardless of wether it's fed taxes, state taxes or county taxes.

In other words all taxes should exclusively being paid by the working class. Corporations now have a nice precedent to not pay taxes at all. "Give me a tax break or I'll move elsewhere..."
Where do you draw the line there? No taxes and wages on one level with China because if you don't take Chinese wages we'll move elsewhere...?
That can't be the answer either.

A good point on which I totally agree. But we know it won't happen. People have been complaining about that for centuries, perhaps millennia and nothing ever made it happen regardless of who was in power....
I'm all for reasonable taxes. Nobody should be taxed into poverty or having his achievements negated by taxes but those who can lift more weight than others should also contribute a bit more than those who can't. To not contribute at all while swimming in cash isn't fair towards the average john Doe who has to pay taxes to keep the show going.

Taxes in general come from a lot places. Income, capital gains, inheritance, sales, property, etc. So what tax in general are you thinking of?

I did not state only working folks pay taxes. Everyone pays taxes. Some more then others. Some simply lie on their returns and pay nothing. Understand the tax is only part of the issue concerning corporations in America. Over-regulation currently imposed is also driving them out. It is more than just a tax break. Further, how can a local company compete monetarily with a foreign company that does not have these regulations? They can't. So they move to Mexico where regulations are about none. It is not really give me a tax break and I'll stay. It is more so, "This is what is causing failure of this company is this... How can you help with this issue?" Concerning China, the are getting away with murder on the open market. For example, it is cheaper for the US to ship unfinished wood to China who then makes it into shims for construction. These shims are shipped back to the US for sale at Home Depot. What is wrong with this picture?

At the end of the day, I think entire tax code needs an overhaul. What worked decades ago is not working now. Everyone should pay some sort of tax. Everyone should pay at least something into the Affordable Healthcare act. The free rides need to come to an end.

[Mr Quatro]

I feel that there is too much hoopla coming out of this pre taking office for POTUS elect Donald Trump. I hope it is all good for the USA ... I say again I hope this wheeler dealer can do what he says he can do, but about the tax loop holes: http://theweek.com/articles/486055/w...tric-pay-taxes

The largest corporation in America paid precisely zero dollars in taxes to the government last year. Despite making $14.2 billion in profits, General Electric managed to exploit legal loopholes and tax breaks to avoid paying any corporate tax in the U.S., reports David Kocieniewski at The New York Times. In fact, GE was able to claim a tax benefit of $3.2 billion in 2010

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/04/war...pays-no-taxes/

This much is certain: As the New York Times and others have well documented, GE has employed a number of aggressive (and legal) strategies that have greatly reduced the company’s corporate tax burden.
But the claim that it pays no federal income tax at all is disputed by GE. Moreover, aside from corporate income taxes, GE pays payroll taxes, state taxes and local taxes. So Warren’s blanket assertion that GE pays “nothing – zero – in taxes” is simply inaccurate

If I remember correctly Trump has said the same thing that they pay payroll taxes, state taxes and local taxes, but no current tax records have been forth coming.

Doesn't GE sell items like jet engines to the US government?

Plus a rumor I just heard and haven't followed up on that the forgivness of student loans is on the horizon.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Taxes in general come from a lot places. Income, capital gains, inheritance, sales, property, etc. So what tax in general are you thinking of?

Originally Posted by Schroeder

But who is going to pay for your education system, military (!!!), law enforcement, firefighters, roads etc... All that costs money. Your country already had to raise that debt ceiling couple of times if memory serves right so how do you want to pay for all that with lowered taxes or giving big corporations total tax cuts? Taxes must be reasonable yes, but they also must cover the costs.

I replied to taxes in general.

I did not state only working folks pay taxes.

But that is exactly what it comes down to in the end.

. Understand the tax is only part of the issue concerning corporations in America. Over-regulation currently imposed is also driving them out. It is more than just a tax break. Further, how can a local company compete monetarily with a foreign company that does not have these regulations? They can't.

Which is why they made 606 million dollars last year....and their parent company a net gain of 5.4 billion.
http://www.bloomberg.com/research/st...ivcapId=620281

http://2014ar.utc.com/assets/pdfs/UT...FullReport.pdf
(page 9 in your reader and page 7 of the flier)
Yeah, right, totally can't compete and close to chapter 11.

So they move to Mexico where regulations are about none. It is not really give me a tax break and I'll stay. It is more so, "This is what is causing failure of this company is this... How can you help with this issue?"

The company isn't failing, it seems to be just the normal greed for maximized profits. It's the old boogeyman of "you're taxing us into the ground bohooho" while making healthy profits. Of course there has to be a balance and taxes that destroy companies surely don't help anyone but as long as they make about 2million USD profit every working day I don't see how they can be overtaxed or uncompetitive.

At the end of the day, I think entire tax code needs an overhaul. What worked decades ago is not working now. Everyone should pay some sort of tax. Everyone should pay at least something into the Affordable Healthcare act. The free rides need to come to an end.

That I can agree with.

[AVGWarhawk]

I think America needs the hoopla at the moment. The tax codes need an overhaul. Many gasped that Trump did not pay taxes. Well, he didn't. He used the tax code to his advantage just like anyone else. This looked to be some good ammo for the Dems but at the end of the day, it was pop gun. Everyone used the tax code to their advantage. Unless you are Joe Biden who states it is your patriotic duty to pay a more taxes.

I too have heard of college loan forgiveness. However, how is forgiving me for paying my daughters tuitions?

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

.... but those who can lift more weight than others should also contribute a bit more than those who can't.

Everyone should contribute, ìts not right I have to pay at 28% and someone playing video games all day or selling weed pays 0%

Cut taxes, cut spending. Let people keep more of what they earn.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

At the end of the day, I think entire tax code needs an overhaul. What worked decades ago is not working now. Everyone should pay some sort of tax. Everyone should pay at least something into the Affordable Healthcare act. The free rides need to come to an end.

Fully agree, but I don't think that someone who has made a lot of his money by knowing how to dodge those taxes is going to do much to reform the system which has benefited him so much.

But, I could be pleasantly surprised. If anyone knows how to close loopholes it's someone who has used them, but it's the potential for clashing of interests in a lot of areas, even if he has vowed to step down from his company.

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Everyone should contribute, ìts not right I have to pay at 28% and someone playing video games all day or selling weed pays 0%

Cut taxes, cut spending. Let people keep more of what they earn.

A main point is who do we weight up against who. You up against drug dealers or you up against tycoons and billionaires (apart from the drug dealers not declaring any income for obvious reasons)?

We have a shipping billionaire here. He made it perfectly clear: If he had to pay tax on his income, he would move his business out of the country. Paying tax took a toll on his health poor fellow so he ended up taking his business with him when he flagged out (not a huge fan of name dropping but a fantastic story requires some evidence: His name is, if it's of any interest, John Fredriksen).

Up against drug dealers is one thing, up against people like that J.F. is something else entirely and something worth pondering. He is far from the only one.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Fully agree, but I don't think that someone who has made a lot of his money by knowing how to dodge those taxes is going to do much to reform the system which has benefited him so much.

But, I could be pleasantly surprised. If anyone knows how to close loopholes it's someone who has used them, but it's the potential for clashing of interests in a lot of areas, even if he has vowed to step down from his company.

Using the tax code to ones advantage is what many do because it is available. Hiding income happens as well. I think Trump will need to do something. At the very least a tax cut or writing some checks to everyone like Bush did.

A flat tax could be in the works. As it stands now the tax code no longer fits the countries needs IMO.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Everyone should contribute, ìts not right I have to pay at 28% and someone playing video games all day or selling weed pays 0%

Exactly, all need to contribute, not just the working Joe but that's what the corporations want. No tax for them or else....

Cut taxes, cut spending. Let people keep more of what they earn.

Cut spending on what? Education, military, infra structure, law enforcement, social security, research...? The problem is while a lot of tax money is wasted (not just in the US it's a global problem) the majority of it goes into the aforementioned sectors were it is needed (and when it comes to social security I'm talking about people in need, not those too lazy to work, cut their benefits until they are willing to work). There is the problem right there. The question is how much and where can spending be cut or optimized without letting the whole system collapse? Just reducing spending and cutting taxes in general can ruin parts of your system. Over here every government since the end of the cold war has cut back on military spending and now we're in a state where barely anything is still functioning and plenty of our equipment that looks good on paper isn't ready because we don't buy spare parts for it or it's 50 years old or both... Right now the German military is pretty much not combat ready whatsoever. Our infrastructure has been neglected as well and we'll have to pay a lot for that in the not so distant future (bridges falling apart for example=.
It's all not that simple.

(darn, now I know why Blitzkrieg said I was a left oddball)