2016 US Presidential election thread

Is the GoP a sinking ship? Doesn't look like it. Seems to be steaming ahead at full speed, while the captain tweets about icebergs being a Chinese plot...

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Is the GoP a sinking ship? Doesn't look like it. Seems to be steaming ahead at full speed, while the captain tweets about icebergs being a Chinese plot...

Think it is possible? Let's see what the media has for us on that.

[Oberon]

I think the GOP can possibly starve off self-destruction (for now) in light of having got its candidate into the White House, rallying around the flag and defending their candidate right or wrong can be a unifying force. Equally, I think now the Dems are going to be knocked out of sync, trying to find a place for themselves in this new order, and wondering whether they should change or whether the fact that they got the popular vote means that they don't need to change as much. Then there's the gap between the Clintonite wing and the Bernie left which has yet to be resolved.
Basically, whoever lost this election is going to have to have a rethink of party strategy, I think the Dems could possibly avoid the sort of catastrophic explosion that was potentially waiting for the Republicans, but it's still going to take a fair bit of work.

[mapuc]

Can't remember when some expert on American politics said something about GOP in crisis and a GOP divided into two fraction would not be some "Fata Morgana"(= This Fata Morgana is my own words, I can not remember the words he used, but it's somehow in the same area)

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think the GOP can possibly starve off self-destruction (for now) in light of having got its candidate into the White House, rallying around the flag and defending their candidate right or wrong can be a unifying force. Equally, I think now the Dems are going to be knocked out of sync, trying to find a place for themselves in this new order, and wondering whether they should change or whether the fact that they got the popular vote means that they don't need to change as much. Then there's the gap between the Clintonite wing and the Bernie left which has yet to be resolved.
Basically, whoever lost this election is going to have to have a rethink of party strategy, I think the Dems could possibly avoid the sort of catastrophic explosion that was potentially waiting for the Republicans, but it's still going to take a fair bit of work.

They will rethink electoral college removal and go by popular vote option. Why fix themselves when they can fix the system to their advantage instead? Much like redistricting counties within the state. Stacking the deck as it were.

[eddie]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think the GOP can possibly starve off self-destruction (for now) in light of having got its candidate into the White House, rallying around the flag and defending their candidate right or wrong can be a unifying force. Equally, I think now the Dems are going to be knocked out of sync, trying to find a place for themselves in this new order, and wondering whether they should change or whether the fact that they got the popular vote means that they don't need to change as much. Then there's the gap between the Clintonite wing and the Bernie left which has yet to be resolved.
Basically, whoever lost this election is going to have to have a rethink of party strategy, I think the Dems could possibly avoid the sort of catastrophic explosion that was potentially waiting for the Republicans, but it's still going to take a fair bit of work.

We'll leave it up to the Republican controlled Congress to mess it up for the Republicans! I can't wait until they deregulate the banks again, I mean it worked out so well last time,LOL

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I did not suggest you voted Clinton. Don't care who voted for and none of my business. Your point is pointless. The data appears to look at the surface only. What precipitated before these administrations came in?

Strong isolationist movements, you know, America for Americans, etc. And just to put a Yubba slant on it, a "total rejection" of Republican ideals when at war. I'm being a devils advocate here.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Two Bears

The way I see it, the left has been the driving force behind having this nation attempt to actually live up to its own stated ideals. It wasn't the right that pushed for the 13th, 14th, 15th, 19th and 24th Amendments. It was the left; the side that has always been about making the United States of America conform to those inalienable rights that are so frequently touted.

No, Lincoln, a Republican, pushed through the 13th amendment outlawing slavery. The Democrats were quite willing to leave slavery in place to end the War.

Better learn your history kid.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

No, Lincoln, a Republican, pushed through the 13th amendment outlawing slavery. The Democrats were quite willing to leave slavery in place to end the War.

Better learn your history kid.

I was hoping that someone would have posted this. Indeed the Republican Party, the Party of Lincoln, was on the side of abolition. They were referred to as the "Radical Republicans", not because they wore neon wrap-around sunglasses, which they most certainly did, but because their progressive social ideals were indeed radical for the time. The idea that people should not be considered property was indeed a leftist view of the day.

And so the Republican Party was the party of social progress, and remained that way until the civil rights era of the 1960's, at which time the old southern Democrats fled their party and were absorbed by the GOP. At that point the polarity of the parties began to shift, and those who were so once defenders of personal freedom became its chief opposition.

It is because of these facts that I view politics as a matter of progressive vs conservative rather than the myopic view of party vs party. The Republican Party of 1860 holds little in common with the Republican Party of 2016. Moreover, both the Republican and Democratic parties will dissolve one day, just at their predecessors have. What remains will be the endless push forward by the left and the endless resistance to that push by the right.

And so, I know my history. Evidently the parts that you were not aware of either.

[Mr Quatro]

Remember after the last election? You know the one in 2012 when Obama beat Romney and the news media was proposing that would be the end of the GOP?

famous last words https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.7cb7ce505875

I found this and it was March 4th this year with the same theme ... scroll down for the video of Romney telling everyone what he thinks of Donald Trump:

The end of this GOP might be a blessing

So it has come to this: a brokered convention or President Hillary Clinton.

These options seem to be what’s left to Republicans of conscience, who are, let’s face it, rather Romney-come-latelies to the pyre. They’re based on the following evidence: It is highly unlikely that Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or John Kasich can wrest the nomination from Donald Trump, even though most polls show each of the three beating Clinton but Clinton beating Trump.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

They will rethink electoral college removal and go by popular vote option. Why fix themselves when they can fix the system to their advantage instead? Much like redistricting counties within the state. Stacking the deck as it were.

They thought about that here once, it never took off, doubt it will over there either. Chances are what will happen is that the Clinton and Bernie sides of the Dems will have a little power struggle and one of them will win. Same thing has happened over here and the Bernie side won it.

Republicans = Conservative party
Democrats = Labour party
Bernie-bros = Corbynites
Clintons = New Labour
Tea Party = UKIP

We went through this last year, it was thought that Labour might just clinch it, or perhaps there'd be a hung parliament, not many people saw a Tory majority coming. The Tories immediately set to trying to pander to their UKIP and Euro-sceptic wing, setting in motion the EU referendum which would bring us Brexit, whilst Labour collapsed into civil war between New Labour and 'Old Labour' under Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn won the Labour leadership challenge, but has faced near constant power-struggles ever since and is currently set to lead the Labour party to their biggest defeat since Michael Foot and his 'Longest suicide note in history' of the 1980s.
Of interest though is what happened to UKIP after it had served its purpose, it has entered a period of turbulance, with Nigel Farage trying to resign and failing miserably, the party finances in disarray and a lot of people wondering what is the point of having it now. Whether this will change under Paul Nuttall who was elected new UKIP leader a few days ago, reminds to be seen, or whether UKIP will ultimately reject him as a leader since the entire system was built around one man, Farage, and seems to struggle to function without him.
Of course, it's questionable to say that Trump is from the Tea Party wing, certainly he shares some of their beliefs, or at least states that he does, but their main figurehead has been Ted Cruz. I guess a lot of it depends on what Trump decides to do, and how much of what he has promised he will actually deliver as to whether the Tea Party wing of the Republican party will support him.

[August]

Originally Posted by Two Bears

What remains will be the endless push forward by the left and the endless resistance to that push by the right.

The left has never pushed anything forward, at least not anything good for the nation. They only pull to the left where equality is achieved by making everyone a slave to the state. The right has never pushed anything forward either but between them their polar opposition usually achieves enough of a balance to keep either one from pulling us all into the abyss.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by August

The left has never pushed anything forward, at least not anything good for the nation. They only pull to the left where equality is achieved by making everyone a slave to the state. The right has never pushed anything forward either but between them their polar opposition usually achieves enough of a balance to keep either one from pulling us all into the abyss.

I think that the abolition of slavery and the extension of voting rights to all people regardless of race, creed or gender were and are all very good things for the nation.

Originally Posted by Two Bears

I think that the abolition of slavery and the extension of voting rights to all people regardless of race, creed or gender were and are all very good things for the nation.

Indeed. And of course, the nation was created by radicals who opposed the colonial status quo.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Of course, it's questionable to say that Trump is from the Tea Party wing, certainly he shares some of their beliefs, or at least states that he does, but their main figurehead has been Ted Cruz. I guess a lot of it depends on what Trump decides to do, and how much of what he has promised he will actually deliver as to whether the Tea Party wing of the Republican party will support him.

I think that sums it up nicely. I did not want a Trump Presidency any more than I wanted Bill Clinton's wife elected. But we have him, and barring a recount miracle, we're stuck with him. Now, even though I think he is a classless huckster, many of the things he ran on and preached about, I agree with. So, if he delivers on his campaign promises, I will hold my nose and support him. At least he is moving in the right direction, that big mouth of his is producing results.

After Trump pledged to keep Carrier jobs in U.S, company says it won’t move nearly 1,000 to Mexico