2016 US Presidential election thread

Originally Posted by yubba

...more people chose to be free...

Possibly. But the candidate who got less votes appears to have won anyway...

Originally Posted by yubba

...you don't have the backing of the military or the 40 some million oath sworn military vets.

Neither do you.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

For the benefit of those who don't know, this so-called 'University' is nothing but a personal website.

Nothing but a personal website that presents the truth in a logical, clear and non-argumentative manner. It performs a function that our public and private universities have abdicated. It is dedicated to the principle that if you are right you have no need to lie or invent fake news.

Its ideas ARE falsifiable and can be discussed in good faith both by those who agree or disagree with the conclusions therein. But "nothing but a personal website" is just a distraction to prejudice readers from considering the ideas contained in the video. The tactic itself reveals weakness in the person using it.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by yubba

well that's nice,, but the constitution wasn't ratified till Jun 21, 1788, and only after a bitter revolution with the King of England ,,

Even a true statement is valuless if it is entirely irrelevant. The above is an irrelevant comment.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Nothing but a personal website that presents the truth in a logical, clear and non-argumentative manner. It performs a function that our public and private universities have abdicated. It is dedicated to the principle that if you are right you have no need to lie or invent fake news.

Its ideas ARE falsifiable and can be discussed in good faith both by those who agree or disagree with the conclusions therein. But "nothing but a personal website" is just a distraction to prejudice readers from considering the ideas contained in the video. The tactic itself reveals weakness in the person using it.

Making false claims to 'university' status is a fundamentally dishonest tactic. If the ideas are any good, you don't need to lie to present them. Though I note it seems to be rather fashionable amongst some of the U.S.'s leading lights to found bogus educational institutions...

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Possibly. But the candidate who got less votes appears to have won anyway...

And that is entirely right and proper. Watch this, as I did. It changed my opinion from the one you now hold to that of profound respect for founders much wiser than I. Sometimes expediency is NOT the highest good. Rights are protected by laws and by rules, not by democracy.

Democracy is two cats and a mouse voting over what's for dinner. Laws protect the rights of minorities and individuals from the tyranny of mob rule: pure democracy, which always fails. It is replaced by pure dictatorship, which is seldom a good thing. As such, our rules are determined to avoid that end.

This video is how I discovered Prager U and is a prime example of how to state a position positively, backed by facts and with reason. Is it possible to disagree with it or parts of it? Of course, but it is a reasonable and fact-based justification for the electoral college and why it protects your rights.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

And that is entirely right and proper. Watch this, as I did. It changed my opinion from the one you now hold...

You have precisely zero knowledge of my opinion of the U.S. electoral system.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Making false claims to 'university' status is a fundamentally dishonest tactic. If the ideas are any good, you don't need to lie to present them. Though I note it seems to be rather fashionable amongst some of the U.S.'s leading lights to found bogus educational institutions...

I made no false claim. I merely made the mistake of improperly adding "niversity" to their "U." It is very clear on their website what they are and what they are not.

Their website is PragerU.com. In fact, the U stands for United, not University. So you have presented a red herring, another evidence that you believe that your ideas cannot stand by their own merit, but can only be defended by subterfuge. This not to imply that yubba or others don't engage in similar tactics. Their use says the same thing about their opinions by the way. I'm not making ideologically based conclusions.

My arguments are represented by the CONTENT of the video, not who made it, whether they were "authorities" or unknown individuals, not whether a third party referred to their website by an improper name, not by what constellation the planet Mars is in now or whether it is in retrograde. All that is mere clutter to try to obscure the meaning of the content, which is worthy of discussion without prejudicial conduct.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

You have precisely zero knowledge of my opinion of the U.S. electoral system.

Typical personal attack based on ignorance of anything I actually know or do not know. Personal attacks are made based on your own assessment that your position cannot stand with coercion or false logic.

So after watching the video and conducting additional research (which used to be everybody's experience in the quaint practice of Civics classes in junior and senior high schools when schools actually educated) to verify or contradict the positions stated in the video, do you think that the Electoral College is a device that protects the rights of states and citizens?

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I made no false claim. I merely made the mistake of improperly adding "niversity" to their "U." It is very clear on their website what they are and what they are not.

Their website is PragerU.com. In fact, the U stands for United, not University. So you have presented a red herring, another evidence that you believe that your ideas cannot stand by their own merit, but can only be defended by subterfuge...

Um, that's a no. It is a demonstrable fact that Dennis Prager has produced videos clearly and unambiguously labelled 'Prager University': https://www.bostonglobe.com/business...tlI/story.html

[Takeda Shingen]

FYI Dennis Prager is the guy that said Muslim elected officials shouldn't be able to take their oath over the Qu'ran because American civilization (whatever the hell that is) was founded on the Bible and that sexual assaults that occurred on collegiate campuses were lies. Take his words with a fist-sized grain of salt.

Also, the "U" absolutely stands for "University".

http://www.dennisprager.com/

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Typical personal attack based on ignorance of anything I actually know or do not know. Personal attacks are made based on your own assessment that your position cannot stand with coercion or false logic.

Stating a self-evident fact about your inability to read my mind is not a 'personal attack'.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Two Bears

FYI Dennis Prager is the guy that said Muslim elected officials shouldn't be able to take their oath over the Qu'ran because American civilization (whatever the hell that is) was founded on the Bible and that sexual assaults that occurred on collegiate campuses were lies. Take his words with a fist-sized grain of salt.

Also, the "U" absolutely stands for "University".

http://www.dennisprager.com/

Did I say that Prager is God and never has any erroneous ideas? Go to https://www.prageru.com/ and see that they clearly state "Join PragerUnited" But in fact anyone can call their thing a university that wants to and it is the responsibility of people to use their own judgment to assess what the value of the word is.

Prager himself is a fallable individual. Some of his ideas then, will be correct and some incorrect. Just like everybody else! Having an incorrect idea does not falsify his correct ideas.

Again, I extend the content of the two videos I posted, not Dennis Prager, not PragerU (although they have some excellent videos. I expect they have some questionable ones too, just like everybody else). Not one detractor has tslked about their content.

There is a reason for that. I trust people to have the wisdom to form their own opinions and I trust that most of them will be correrct.

All this incindiary conduct by BOTH SIDES since the election is entirely counter-productive and harmful. Mostly it's just foolishness for foolish reasons. Hillary has it right. Now is the time to accept the results of the election and make the best of the circumstances in which we find ourselves. We will find that opportunities abound to do good, whatever our political persuasion. Firebrands on both sides should be ignored. It would be fun to ridicule them, but now is not the time.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Did I say that Prager is God and never has any erroneous ideas? Go to https://www.prageru.com/ and see that they clearly state "Join PragerUnited" But in fact anyone can call their thing a university that wants to and it is the responsibility of people to use their own judgment to assess what the value of the word is.

Prager himself is a fallable individual. Some of his ideas then, will be correct and some incorrect. Just like everybody else! Having an incorrect idea does not falsify his correct ideas.

Again, I extend the content of the two videos I posted, not Dennis Prager, not PragerU (although they have some excellent videos. I expect they have some questionable ones too, just like everybody else). Not one detractor has tslked about their content.

There is a reason for that. I trust people to have the wisdom to form their own opinions and I trust that most of them will be correrct.

All this incindiary conduct by BOTH SIDES since the election is entirely counter-productive and harmful. Mostly it's just foolishness for foolish reasons. Hillary has it right. Now is the time to accept the results of the election and make the best of the circumstances in which we find ourselves. We will find that opportunities abound to do good, whatever our political persuasion. Firebrands on both sides should be ignored. It would be fun to ridicule them, but now is not the time.

You said this:

Nothing but a personal website that presents the truth in a logical, clear and non-argumentative manner.

It is not the truth. It is a highly-slanted opinion that you happen to agree with. Again, this is not truth.

Also if you happen to make your way to Prager's website, which I generously linked for you, you will see the link clearly displayed as "Prager University".

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

...incindiary conduct...

Expressing opinions in a crowded room?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Expressing opinions in a crowded room?

The last few pages of this rather nasty thread (see what I did there) has seemed to drive the point home that any sentiment other than unqualified love and support of America's golden-haired God King is considered incendiary and is to be met with violence at the hands of old fat guys with AR-15's. And it isn't even Donald Trump's America yet.

Interesting times ahead.