Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

Calling General Manstein.....calling General Erich Von Manstein.

Been reviewing the Alternative History Thread have you!"Not necessarily Germany; just Manstein himself, who was arguably the best commander of WWII and could handle whatever the Russians could throw down except perhaps for Zhukov. If Napoleon's assessment of his own marshals is an example, Von M., the classic Prussian officer, was "capable of the great game" in all aspects, including the political of which warfare is only "Other means"; ... The man could do it all on the battlefield, stand up to the Fuhrer, and helped rebuild his country after the war ...the quintessential go-to Prussian von Herr...smart, ruthless and gifted." PRECISELY!!! And Putin ain't no Zhukov! He may have smarts but he's got no 'horse sense'
Zhukov in Red Square: lookin' good VS Putin: God knows where (diggin' trenches?)...not lookin' so good trying to recapture past glory; and I wonder what happened to the photographer !

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

I see Chessmaster Gary Kasparov has made if official by voting with his feet, and becoming a Croatian citizen. However, he was at odds with Putin long before all this.

That's funny you mentioned about this man.. he was one of those who called people to the streets and squares two years ago.. and when regime started the repressions, he had fled.. and what about others? who, like me and many others, can't do it so easy? who фку not welcome in EU or US?..

BTW, Gennady Timchenko.. unofficial Putin's 'wallet' and his billions keeper.. he is a citizen of Finland.. what EU think about him?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

There is so much tub thumping flag waving jingoism with an unhealthy dose of nationalism doing the rounds at the moment its almost like a time warp back to 1914

Isn't that the sad truth, in 100 years we have learnt sod all. What a way to mark the centenary.

[Skybird]

It is so often claimed that the Ukrainians want this or that. As if there is this thing, this uniform mass of just the Ukrainians who all want the same.

several times during the euphemistically so-called Arab spring the West spoke of "the opposition", as if it were one cohesive opposition with one set of goals shared by all. And then it was a conglomerate of various groups with antagonistic agendas, even rightout religious radical group and terror groups.

There still is no government in the Ukraine elected by all populatiopn, and there still is not just one (former) oppsotiion. There is not just "the" Ukrainians who want to move towards Europe. Thgere are fascists for sure. There pro-EU groups. There are pro-Russian groups. There are ultra-nationalists - some with love for Russia, some with love for independence from both the EU and Russia.

And so we would be well advised to realise that a part of the Ukrainians want towards Europe. We should stop thinking that "the" Ukrainians" in general are against Russia or pro Europe. Some are like that, and some others are right the opposite.

And we currently have no clue at all whom and how many the provisory government in Kiew actually is representing. It might be much lesser people, than Westerners right now want to make themselves believe.


On Euronews there was a man from the streets of Kiew, who left an impression on me. He looked quite disillusioned into the camera, with a sad face and tired eyes, and he said: "Whatever, we have lived for years in friendship and neighbourhood - and now this? Whatever comes now, just don't let it be war. Anything, just no war."

Sailor_X and his eagerness to proudly throw himself into the hated Russians' bajonets maybe should be given the opportunity to have a little talking with this man. Just to bring himself a little bit more to his senses.

News says that many Ukrainian troops on the Crimea are deserting or switched sides.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Oberon

The Global Brown Trouser Clock will be moved closer to midnight.

It's just some kind of a scenario and far from the real thing

Here's the real scenario

NATO send a message to the Ukraine government, saying NATO can't assist in their struggle against Russia. At same time NATO send Ukraine's request to the UN.

In UN there will be many drafts and every one rejected by the Russians and the bureaucracy are working very slowly and in the year 2022 UN decide to send some observe to the rest of Ukraine.

See this is the real life scenario.

Markus

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by mapuc

It's just some kind of a scenario and far from the real thing

Here's the real scenario

NATO send a message to the Ukraine government, saying NATO can't assist in their struggle against Russia. At same time NATO send Ukraine's request to the UN.

In UN there will be many drafts and every one rejected by the Russians and the bureaucracy are working very slowly and in the year 2022 UN decide to send some observe to the rest of Ukraine.

See this is the real life scenario.

Markus

This is a totally unrealistic scenario. The UN would still be debating whether or not to send observers in 2022!

[volodya61]

Seems Frau Merkel won Putin and won in the new Crimean War..

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

News says that many Ukrainian troops on the Crimea are deserting or switched sides.

Not just troops, the latest is that the new head of the navy has defected as well, and Crimea is organising its own navy.
Russia might not even have to lift a finger to win this war.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Admiral Halsey

This is a totally unrealistic scenario. The UN would still be debating whether or not to send observers in 2022!

in which China and Russia would veto it

UN is a joke, but you have to read what they say anyway

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yep.

What we can and must do is finally stopping our infantile illusions about peacefully melting the world together, multiculti and all that, but to honour grim realities and understand that Russia is our political partner - NOT. It'S interests in parts are completely opposing ours. But we act as if we share interests and values. And now there we stand, with dropped pants, bare-bottomed, thumb in mouth, snapped.

They honour their business contracts, however. Even during the Cuba crisis, they fulfilled their obligations in deliveries to Europe.

What about the Coca cola commercials?

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

in which China and Russia would veto it

UN is a joke, but you have to read what they say anyway

Of course it's a joke. Sad thing is it's still better then what came before it. Though to be fair it has done fairly well in it's real mission to prevent another global conflict like the two world wars. Of course it will someday fail that but for now it's doing a decent job.

[Oberon]

Alledged reports from the BBC that a loud explosion has been heard in Simferopol, no more details yet.

There's a pretty good collection of random news selections about the Ukraine in:
http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2r...ciytwcxadi?t=t

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Alledged reports from the BBC that a loud explosion has been heard in Simferopol, no more details yet.

There's a pretty good collection of random news selections about the Ukraine in:
http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2r...ciytwcxadi?t=t

It's times like this when I just lay back and listen to It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine).

[nikimcbee]

Just for fun, let's say Ukraine was part of NATO. Who's going to act first on the NATO side?

Air campaign? Good luck with that, this isn't Iraq or Serbia. I don't think the Russian air force is going to run away and hide.

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Just for fun, let's say Ukraine was part of NATO. Who's going to act first on the NATO side?

Air campaign? Good luck with that, this isn't Iraq or Serbia. I don't think the Russian air force is going to run away and hide.

If Ukraine was a part of NATO? Then Russia wouldn't even be saying a thing let alone trying to annex Crimea. Putin may be many things but stupid he is not.