[REL] Dynamic Environment SH5

[Silent Steel]

Originally Posted by Fifi

15m/s = 30 knots
I prefer knots as reference, it's much more talking to me. When i navigate for RL, we all use knots instead of m/s

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by Fifi

Honestly, i think zero wind in Baltic, Arctic, Atlantic, Pacific etc...is the same zero wind rendering
Water is exactly the same, and without any wind = no waves at all = maximum water reflection in whatever earth place.
Only sea color may change, due to sea ground/depth combined to sky color and clouds overcast IMO.

Sorry, Fifi.. I don't think so.. I've never seen 'mirror' sea in the Baltic.. but it's only my point of view.. better to ask people who lives there..

Silent Steel, are you here?

[Silent Steel]

Originally Posted by volodya61

Sorry, Fifi.. I don't think so.. I've never seen 'mirror' sea in the Baltic.. but it's only my point of view.. better to ask people who lives there..

Silent Steel, are you here?

Есть товариш Капитан, всегда
Ты полностью прав Володя!

Volodya is completely right here.
Living right in the middle of the Baltic and sailing from April-May to end of September all I can do is to agree with Volodya.
So far I've only seen a 'mirror' see very close to the coast (i.e. < 0.5 NMi)
Farther out at sea, even by flat calm - no 'mirror' sea.

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by Silent Steel

Есть товариш Капитан, всегда
Ты полностью прав Володя!

Thanks for the reply, Silent

It was discuss my previous post here - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=374

I think 'mirror' state of the sea is more appropriate to the tropical and equatorial areas of the ocean, far of the coasts.. and isn't appropriate to the seas surrounded by land..

[gap]

Sorry guys, but Mediterranean is a closed sea as well, and the specular sea effect is quite common when the sun is low on the horizon, no matter how far from the shore.

Maybe it has to do with water depth, or water transparence

Anyway there is a better way to limit the specular effect than setting different sea parameters for each sea: IIRC, the effect is determined by "ExtraSpecColor" parameters in EnvColors cfg files, which are applied locally for each zone set on map (no need to enable a new cfg file each time we change location). Set them to a darker color and extra water reflections will be gone. Moreover, we will be able to set the desired degree of reflection for different weathers and sun angles. The only downside is that I would be forced to edit that damn tga map once again, and we are also running short of map colors available for setting new zones

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

Anyway there is a better way to limit the specular effect than setting different sea parameters for each sea: IIRC, the effect is determined by "ExtraSpecColor" parameters in EnvColors cfg files, which are applied locally for each zone set on map (no need to enable a new cfg file each time we change location). Set them to a darker color and extra water reflections will be gone. Moreover, we will be able to set the desired degree of reflection for different weathers and sun angles. The only downside is that I would be forced to edit that damn tga map once again, and we are also running short of map colors available for setting new zones

I meant not only specular effect.. in the Northern seas I've never seen smooth surface.. even if wind speed was 0.. there is always a slight disturbance of the sea..

[vlad29]

Originally Posted by volodya61

I meant not only specular effect.. in the Northern seas I've never seen smooth surface.. even if wind speed was 0.. there is always a slight disturbance of the sea..

It could be smooth but vary rear, near the shore or in harbors/bays

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by vlad29

It could be smooth but vary rear, near the shore or in harbors/bays

That's exactly what I'm talking about.. last time went to Scapa and the wind was 0m/s during five days.. the North Sea was like a mirror five days.. it's a nonsense..

[Fifi]

So if no mirror sea up that Northern, maybe just delete 0m/s wind or better, back up original Gale xyz values for zero wind
...but still don't understand how you can get waves with real zero wind up there, as it's only wind wich raise waves on water surface (assuming zero wind has to be effective for quite some time, for the sea to calm down - it's not instantaneous)

[vlad29]

Originally Posted by Fifi

So if no mirror sea up that Northern, maybe just delete 0m/s wind or better, back up original Gale xyz values for zero wind
...but still don't understand how you can get waves with real zero wind up there, as it's only wind wich raise waves on water surface (assuming zero wind has to be effective for quite some time, for the sea to calm down - it's not instantaneous)

You're right re. wind, but waves in the open sea could migrate up to 5000 miles from the epicentre they appear.

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by Fifi

So if no mirror sea up that Northern, maybe just delete 0m/s wind or better, back up original Gale xyz values for zero wind

Fifi, once again.. I'm not saying that your edition is bad or wrong.. just read again my first post on this issue - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=374
My opinion - we needs several waves/sea conditions mods like we already have several mods for underwater plants.. all seas and waters are different..

Originally Posted by Fifi

...but still don't understand how you can get waves with real zero wind up there, as it's only wind wich raise waves on water surface (assuming zero wind has to be effective for quite some time, for the sea to calm down - it's not instantaneous)

There are too many factors affecting the condition of the sea surface and on the wave.. not only the wind.. currents, tides, air and water temperature, etc..

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by volodya61

There are too many factors affecting the condition of the sea surface and on the wave.. not only the wind.. currents, tides, air and water temperature, etc..

Yes, you're right!
Currents, certainly. Don't know about the currents states up there...
Tides, only close to coasts imo, and where sea ground is getting less deep when raising up.
Air and water temperature i don't think so directly...but indirectly it's a factor for the wind to raise, hence waves to build up

[Silent Steel]

Originally Posted by Fifi

Tides, only close to coasts imo, and where sea ground is getting less deep when raising up.
Air and water temperature i don't think so directly...but indirectly it's a factor for the wind to raise, hence waves to build up

Whatever the actual reasons for no 'mirror' sea might be, even at flat calm, I can't tell.
Still, if my sense of sight hasn't been and isn't tricking me, there is no such 'mirror' sea.

Tidal effects around the Baltic Sea only occur in the Danish Straits (not in the Baltic Sea) the narrow passage between the southernmost part of Sweden and Denmark which by definition isn't the Baltic Sea.

The Baltic Sea/ Hydrography

[gap]

Okay guys, going by your statements, which no one not living in your areas can reasonably question, we are left with no other option that the one initially suggested by Volodya: 2 different wave mods, one for open waters in general, and one for coastal waters (where the low bathymetry brings underwater currents on the surface), the Baltic and (as I seem to understand from Volodya's location) the Black Sea.

As noted by Fifi, creating two sets of settings shouldn't be too difficult, as we would need to edit only the settings for zero wind

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

Okay guys, going by your statements, which no one not living in your areas can reasonably question, we are left with no other option that the one initially suggested by Volodya: 2 different wave mods, one for open waters in general, and one for coastal waters (where the low bathymetry brings underwater currents on the surface), the Baltic and (as I seem to understand from Volodya's location) the Black Sea.

I'm afraid you got me wrong .. Black Sea is a warm sea and I often have seen it in 'mirror' state.. I think, my suggestions are more for the cold seas.. like Baltic, North, Barents, Norwegian etc..