[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled

[CapnScurvy]

No, IGD really, if you've seen something due to fog or bad weather that effects the OTC radar let me know.

I've tried to make the radar work as expected. Having it cut through fog should be the proper requirement. If it doesn't do that I'd like to know.

I know there isn't a setting for fog in the radar configuration files but there is a modifier for radar and the amount of movement one could get from heavy seas. In order to correct what I saw as a problem with the stock game (not having the radar find a target in calm seas, at close visible distance) I reduced this modifier, which for my tests allowed these targets to be seen on radar for the first time. I didn't change my radar configuration when making it compatible with TMO 2.2.

I'm not feeling hurt that the radar may not work as expected (believe me, there's no way of testing every single circumstance) but, I do want to know about it to correct any errors that may show up unexpectedly.

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

No, IGD really, if you've seen something due to fog or bad weather that effects the OTC radar let me know.

I've tried to make the radar work as expected. Having it cut through fog should be the proper requirement. If it doesn't do that I'd like to know.

I know there isn't a setting for fog in the radar configuration files but there is a modifier for radar and the amount of movement one could get from heavy seas. In order to correct what I saw as a problem with the stock game (not having the radar find a target in calm seas, at close visible distance) I reduced this modifier, which for my tests allowed these targets to be seen on radar for the first time. I didn't change my radar configuration when making it compatible with TMO 2.2.

I'm not feeling hurt that the radar may not work as expected (believe me, there's no way of testing every single circumstance) but, I do want to know about it to correct any errors that may show up unexpectedly.

I never tested it for fog, so do not give any creedence to what I have written regarding your radar devices and that condition.

[Uboatman]

Bouncing boats bug?

Approx in game date for destroyer screen 13th Jan 1942, location NW of Apari by about 150nm, part of a wakakaze(sp?) and 2 sub chaser task force.

1st screen of life raft, there were three of these bouncing around the area of the ship I just blew to pieces:



This destroyer was floating on the surface and rolling around in the same manner as the life raft but only on the horizontal:

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by I'm going down

I never tested it for fog, so do not give any creedence to what I have written regarding your radar devices and that condition.

O 'tay

One thing I want everyone to know..... Please feel free to tell me if you see anything out of the ordinary with the Optical Targeting Correction for TMO 2.2 found HERE.

I try to avoid mistakes and errors with my mods as much as possible. I have no way of testing every circumstance that may arise on every sub, at all times. If something doesn't seem right post what you think in the Optical Targeting Correction thread found HERE. I'll try to track down a problem (if there is one) and correct it when I can.

[Roger Dodger]

I started a new campaign after updating to TMO 2.2 and RSRDC. I started BEFORE Dec 7,'41 in an S-Boat and did 2 patrols with it (one sinking). I was then upgraded to a Porpose Class (USS Perch). The specs and picture clearly show an aft-mounted deck gun. My boat has no deck gun at all, no gun crew on the crew screen (in port or at sea) and no option to add a deck gun on the in-port equipment screen.

I did get the option to add surface-search RADAR for my third patrol (July 4, 1942), which I added, but the 3D TDC mod did not seem to kick in, i.e. I don't get the active TDC screen in RADAR or Conning Tower (still the static TDC in the con). This option was working just fine under TMO 2.0 (can't remember if it was included with TMO 2.0 or if I added the 3D TDC mod after TMO). OR is the 3D TDC option not available with the first RADAR upgrade?

Thanx in advance. God Bless Electric Boat!

[razark]

Originally Posted by Roger Dodger

II was then upgraded to a Porpose Class (USS Perch).

...but the 3D TDC mod did not seem to kick in, i.e. I don't get the active TDC screen in RADAR or Conning Tower (still the static TDC in the con).

The Porpoise class uses a different interior Control Room and Conning Tower. The 3D TDC/radar do not appear. The other boats (aside from the S-boats, and I don't know about the Narwhal) use the Gato interior which includes the TDC/radar.

You can edit the game to have the Porpoise use the Gato interior.
Modify the SH4/Data/Submarine/NSS_Porpoise/NSS_Porpoise.cfg file, replace the line that points to the interior used with:
"Interior=data/Interior/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato"
Check to make sure that's correct, as I typed it in by hand. That will give you a Gato interior, with TDC/radar.

I do miss having different interiors for the boats, though.

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

O 'tay

One thing I want everyone to know..... Please feel free to tell me if you see anything out of the ordinary with the Optical Targeting Correction for TMO 2.2 found HERE.

I try to avoid mistakes and errors with my mods as much as possible. I have no way of testing every circumstance that may arise on every sub, at all times. If something doesn't seem right post what you think in the Optical Targeting Correction thread found HERE. I'll try to track down a problem (if there is one) and correct it when I can.

We need to start a TMO/OTC sticky.

I spent 4 hours dodging escorts in TMO/OTC/OTC US Radar/Toyyko's Revenge - map contacts disabled. Then I accidentally shut down the game, so I am back where I started -- dogding the escorts again! (AARRGGHH!)

How do you approach a convoy at night? If your boat is running with decks awash, it takes cannon fire from the escorts, etc. as it approaches the target or convoy/TF. If it is within +/- 1,500 yds., the escorts from Tokkyo's Revenge pick up your boat, and that portends bad news (you know of what I speak.) Over 1,500 yds, you have to fire torpedoes when the boat is partially submerged with deck's awash so you can view the target using the TBT (which has the the green Telemeter markings which are designed for night use), assuming you have activated the realistic scopes option. The Attack Periscope is impossible to use since the Telemeter marks cannot be deciphered (counted) since they are not visible on a dark night. Thus a submerged attack is virtually an impossibility unless you can estimate Telemeter marks blindly.

So, in summary, if your boat is close enough where you can use the TBT, it will be partially submerged and vulnerable to being attacked by escorts who can spot it. If the boat is submerged, you cannot read the Telemeter marks because they are not visible if the real scopes option is activated. Either way, it is damn near impossible to get a good OTC reading at night. Either you cannot see the Telemeter marks on the Attack Periscope due to lack of light, or youir boat is subject to cannon fire from the target, TF, convoy or escorts, because it is running with decks awash in order to use the TBT because the Telemeter Marks are designed for night attacks.

p.s. I just saw a 3 part series on the UBoats in WW2. When the first US ship, the Reuben James, was torpedoed by a UBoat and sunk, the American escorts dropped depth charges in an ineffective search for the UBoat. According to a UBoat survivor, when the depth charges exploded, the sailors who survived the sinking were in the water. Some were blown 50 meters in the air, and fell to earth (in this case the ocean) with grevious injuries from the explosions. Here are two classic versions of the famous song about the sinking. http://youtu.be/qxoZ4Xpx94c

We need to have a sticky to deal with TMO/OTC issues!

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by razark

The Porpoise class uses a different interior Control Room and Conning Tower. The 3D TDC/radar do not appear. The other boats (aside from the S-boats, and I don't know about the Narwhal) use the Gato interior which includes the TDC/radar.

Boy! Do I feel like a clone! The readme for 3D TDC clearly states that it only works with the Gato/Balao class boats. Must be gettin' old.

Any ideas about why I don't get a deck gun?

[dom111]

Is there any issue or incompatibility with TMO 2.2 + RSRDC + OTC? What versions and order should i use to install these mods?

Thanks and best regards.

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by Roger Dodger

Boy! Do I feel like a clone! The readme for 3D TDC clearly states that it only works with the Gato/Balao class boats. Must be gettin' old.

Any ideas about why I don't get a deck gun?

Originally Posted by dom111

Is there any issue or incompatibility with TMO 2.2 + RSRDC + OTC? What versions and order should i use to install these mods?

Thanks and best regards.

These two quotes above exemplify the problem with complex mods. We, the users, have to keep on top of the contents of each mod's readme.

As for you, dom111, the readme for the OTC and CapnScurvy, who authored it, clearly state that OTC is not compatible with RSRDC. While it is compatible with TMO2.2, it overrides the 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit, as they have the same function in a manner of speaking. I recommend activating the option of US radar from the beginning of the war if you activate OTC. The 3D TDC and OTC are two ways of the skinning the cat, and both are effective. I believe the OTC will also override the Easy Aob mod, but have not checked recently. OTC will resolve the Aob of the target, thus the Easy Aob is superflous (My, that is a big word. Did I just use it?)

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

How do you approach a convoy at night? If your boat is running with decks awash, it takes cannon fire from the escorts, etc

So you thought Tokko's Revenge was going to be a cake walk?

Tokko's Revenge may not let you do every thing you think you would like to do. That's the point of trying to make a harder modification. To keep even the experienced gamer from achieving his goal every time you play. Or, in some cases, anytime you play.

I will admit I spent a lot of time trying to get the AI to work better at night for the regular OTC game. But, there's a problem. Actually it's a big problem. It's my finding that the game parameters for visual detection are "backwards" when trying to modify the night visual parameters. From what I found the visuals have a default capability. The various game parameters simply modify this capability by adjusting for crew skill level, distance, object size etc. There's a night modifier, but when you increase it, it actually increases the AI's ability to see you at night.?!? There is no way of decreasing the modification beyond the default visual capability, so the night parameter is useless in giving an edge to the sub (even though there should be). I tried to set the default visuals to a lower maximum range (which DID produced an AI that had a hard time detecting the sub at night) but the AI were "blind as bats" during the day. After about a week of constant testing and note taking I gave up. I know from past experience, if the hard coded files are set a certain way (right or wrong), there are limited ways of getting around the problem. The night AI visuals are one of these.

One thing that did stand out in my tests is that there is a "randomized" action that sets the AI visual sensors differently every time you play. I used the same test mission on every test and found no two tests were the same regarding the AI's detection and response. I used a stop watch to time the response from the enemy ships set about the sub and found different elapsed times for every restart of the mission. Some tests had the response within a couple of seconds, another test with the same parameters could take minutes to respond, if at all.

As far as "Tokko's Revenge", or the "Realistic Scopes"; you may want to go back to the regular game play and see if you can do better. Or, at least try the default scopes for night viewing. The challenge is to try different things and if they don't work you've only lost time in finding out. In "real life" the sub Captain's rarely had a second chance.

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

So you thought Tokko's Revenge was going to be a cake walk?

Tokko's Revenge may not let you do every thing you think you would like to do. That's the point of trying to make a harder modification. To keep even the experienced gamer from achieving his goal every time you play. Or, in some cases, anytime you play.

I will admit I spent a lot of time trying to get the AI to work better at night for the regular OTC game. But, there's a problem. Actually it's a big problem. It's my finding that the game parameters for visual detection are "backwards" when trying to modify the night visual parameters. From what I found the visuals have a default capability. The various game parameters simply modify this capability by adjusting for crew skill level, distance, object size etc. There's a night modifier, but when you increase it, it actually increases the AI's ability to see you at night.?!? There is no way of decreasing the modification beyond the default visual capability, so the night parameter is useless in giving an edge to the sub (even though there should be). I tried to set the default visuals to a lower maximum range (which DID produced an AI that had a hard time detecting the sub at night) but the AI were "blind as bats" during the day. After about a week of constant testing and note taking I gave up. I know from past experience, if the hard coded files are set a certain way (right or wrong), there are limited ways of getting around the problem. The night AI visuals are one of these.

One thing that did stand out in my tests is that there is a "randomized" action that sets the AI visual sensors differently every time you play. I used the same test mission on every test and found no two tests were the same regarding the AI's detection and response. I used a stop watch to time the response from the enemy ships set about the sub and found different elapsed times for every restart of the mission. Some tests had the response within a couple of seconds, another test with the same parameters could take minutes to respond, if at all.

As far as "Tokko's Revenge", or the "Realistic Scopes"; you may want to go back to the regular game play and see if you can do better. Or, at least try the default scopes for night viewing. The challenge is to try different things and if they don't work you've only lost time in finding out. In "real life" the sub Captain's rarely had a second chance.

Oh well. I should have figured you had checked out the problem beforehand. In any event, I love being hunted for hours on end after a failed night time attack because I could not see the Telemeter marks after activation of the authentic scopes option for the periscope. Spending hours beneath the waves, being pinged constantly by sonar, and waitng while my crew repairs blast damage, MAKES MY DAY! Now if I could only play the gramaphone without it being picked up by the escorts I would truly be in heaven.

[Uboatman]

Originally Posted by Roger Dodger

Boy! Do I feel like a clone! The readme for 3D TDC clearly states that it only works with the Gato/Balao class boats. Must be gettin' old.

Any ideas about why I don't get a deck gun?

If you check the TMO 2.0 PDF manual it tells you about the SHIV deck gun bug and how with TMO you have to make a choice about whether you want your gun to be bow or stern mounted before you start your career, if you choose to have it on the rear and by taking a Porpoise boat you did so, you must enable the aft deck gun option in JSGME before loading up SHIV and starting your career, otherwise the stern deck gun will not appear.

Check the PDF, it will explain things a lot better than I did

[Laffertytig]

how do convoy routes work in TMO? i read somewhere that in SH3 traffic for the whole is loaded when the patrol starts but in SH4 only 3 momths is loaded, not sure i understand what that means though.

for example, if a port becomes japanese during a patrol, do ships start to sail from it or is it only when you officially end the patol and start a new one that ports start to populate?

im not running RSRD.

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by Uboatman

If you check the TMO 2.0 PDF manual it tells you about the SHIV deck gun bug and how with TMO you have to make a choice about whether you want your gun to be bow or stern mounted before you start your career, if you choose to have it on the rear and by taking a Porpoise boat you did so, you must enable the aft deck gun option in JSGME before loading up SHIV and starting your career, otherwise the stern deck gun will not appear.

Check the PDF, it will explain things a lot better than I did

About deck guns, the PDF says:
By default, TMO defaults to mounting deck guns forward of the conning tower, as this is the most popular placement.
The exception to this are the Tambor, and Gar, which ONLY have an aft mount due to the larger 5"/51 caliber deck gun they can equip. A bow mount for these two classes is not available.
If you prefer your deck gun mounted aft of the conning tower, enable the "TMO_Aft_deckguns" alternate mod found in the documentation directory.

EXTRA SPECIAL NOTE:
You must make your deck gun selection before you start your career game. If you prefer a bow mount, you need not do anything except start your game. If you prefer a stern mount, you must enable the alternate mod discussed above. Once you make this selection, you cannot change without causing the "deck gun crew bug" to appear, and you will not have crew slots for your deck gun crew.

Actually, I didn't 'choose' a porpoise, I was 'given' one to replace the S-Boat I started with. Also, I didn't enable the alternate mod since I'm not too keen on the aft mounted gun. The Equipment Screen (in port) clearly shows the boat with an aft mounted gun and no choice for a deck gun is given at all. No choice, no gun, no gun crew slots, and the deck gun button is blacked out. I'll take that to mean the porpoise default is an aft mounted gun. I'll just have to do without one until my next assignment.

Thanx for the help