Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Oberon

And what exactly would you have the leading nations of the world do? Hmmm?

I'd have them sit down, let Putin take the Russian majority part of Ukraine but give Kiev billions to invest in their country. A Crimean purchase.

Unfortunately all that money would go youknowwhere.
Not to modernize the railroads that's for sure. But it beats going to war

Originally Posted by Oberon

And what exactly would you have the leading nations of the world do? Hmmm?

I will express myself once again if this wasn;t clear till now. Fight the wrong ones. Of course if you capable to understand who is the wrong ones. Perhaps you think that Ukraine is the same as Russia ? You're making a huge mistake if you think so.

Originally Posted by Skybird

I bet that many here understand your emotions spiking high currently, if you indeed are Ukrainian. However, this forum has rules that are valid for you as well. Calling names and doing personal attacks like this will bring you into conflict with a moderator sooner than you maybe think possible.

Most uf us understand the emotional energy this all may mean for people in your country. But do not use forum members as lightning rods.

In the first place, let me ask you what makes you think I'm Ukrainian ? In the second place what difference does it take ? You already expressed your not to chalenge Russia's opinion earlier, why would you want to repeat yourself again ?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by sailor_X

I will express myself once again if this wasn;t clear till now. Fight the wrong ones. Of course if you capable to understand who is the wrong ones. Perhaps you think that Ukraine is the same as Russia ? You're making a huge mistake if you think so.

So...fight Russia, eh? Fight a country which is quite capable of wiping us all off the map, fight a country with a military we can't even afford, whilst still stuck in Afghanistan.

Any other grand strategic ideas? Invading China perhaps?

Originally Posted by Betonov

I'd have them sit down, let Putin take the Russian majority part of Ukraine but give Kiev billions to invest in their country. A Crimean purchase.

Unfortunately all that money would go youknowwhere.
Not to modernize the railroads that's for sure. But it beats going to war

That's a bit more reasonable, but unfortunately I'm not sure that Kiev would let us sign over the Russian majority, even with the option to give Kiev billions...which we don't actually have.

No, what's likely going to happen is that Putin will do his business, and we'll slap him with every economic sanction we can think of for a few months and then lift them when we remember that most of Western Europe keeps their lights on through Russian gas, especially Germany, and then we'll quietly drop the sanctions and carry on as normal, attaching the Ukraine to the German financial teat and desperately trying to keep what's left of their economy afloat.

Basically, no matter who wins in this, the Ukraine is going to lose.

[Skybird]

The "wrong" ones? I suppose you mean the evil ones? In other words, you mean Russia.

Well.

That means full scale war against Russia.

No thanks, why should we want to do that. Because else Russian tank armies storm into the Fulda gap?

And how would you compensate us for the effort? Tens of thousands killed, cities devastated, a chance for nuclear war maybe, and money in the trillions being wasted...!?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by sailor_X

In the first place, let me ask you what makes you think I'm Ukrainian ?

Because somewhere you referred to yourself and your people in a way that implied that. Must I look up the sentence again? And I mean "Ukrainian" not ethnically (=not Russian), but on basis of your passport nationality.

In the second place what difference does it take ? You already expressed your not to chalenge Russia's opinion earlier, why would you want to repeat yourself again ?

Pardon...?

This discussion is closed from the side of mine. I'm not willing to cool my mouth with cowards that are affraid of war with Russia to stand for justice. IMO you are nothing more than pathetic, blinded not to see forward, outdated, pacifistic morons. End of disscussion.

[Onkel Neal]

Ahem, please refrain from name calling. Get your rifle and go fight the Russians if you want but adhere to the rules of the forum.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by sailor_X

This discussion is closed from the side of mine. I'm not willing to cool my mouth with cowards that are affraid of war with Russia to stand for justice. IMO you are nothing more than pathetic, blinded not to see forward, outdated, pacifistic morons. End of disscussion.

Well, good luck in the Ukraine anyway, I presume, since you are so righteous that you've already booked tickets to Kiev to volunteer to fight against the Russians?

No?

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

"US announces deployment of troops and naval task force to Crimea"

Here we go.....

Oh boy. This isn't going to end well at all. I just hope if war does break out it's more Red Storm Rising then Threads.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Basically, no matter who wins in this, the Ukraine is going to lose.

I am afraid that'S what it comes down to. The Ukraine is best advised to bite the bitter apple and be pragmatic. If you play not with a little kitty but a big tiger, you are best advised not to pinch its tail. The Russian are stronger than the Ukraine. They want the Ukraine for their union project, and the last thing they want is NATO ships in ports on the Crimean. That are the realities, and there is no way to twist or to bend them. That is not fair, nor is it kind. But it is what the Ukraine has to get along with for now. The alternative is that Ukrainian forces try to fight the Russians and drive them out. At best they fail and the Russians leave it to that - at best. At worst, all of Ukraine gets destroyed, the remains occupied.

They should have kept their nuclear weapons. And maybe all the world is lucky that they did not.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Admiral Halsey

Oh boy. This isn't going to end well at all. I just hope if war does break out it's more Red Storm Rising then Threads.

I'd...err...like to see where the news of that deployment is from, because there's nothing in the big agencies, and I really don't see the US deploying to Crimea. Poland maybe, but not Crimea.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Oberon

even with the option to give Kiev billions...which we don't actually have.

We don't, but Putin does

The problem with economic sanctions against Russia is that Slovenia, as a NATO member, will have to respect them and there goes billions of annual revenue and investments.
A Slovene company (RIKO) is hired to upkeep Putins personal properties and a part of Kremlin. A Russian order kept Seaway from sinking even further 2 years ago and is a reason I got re-hired. Russian tourists are among the most welcome here, while they have demanding taste they leave disqusting piles of money behind (serving at a Russian wedding in Bled left my friend with €500 in tips in one night)

There's a certain bond between the two nations that would keep us out of any hostile actions actions by the Russians if we ignore Brussels, but our ''leaders'' believe that a suicidal war under the NATO flag is more important than keeping taxpayers alive

[volodya61]

I believe that I have to say it because I consider myself a part of this community..

I'm sorry and I'm ashamed that we have allowed Putin to do it..
I'm sorry and I'm ashamed that we didn't stop Putin 10-12 years ago..
I'm sorry and I'm ashamed that we can't stop him now..
But I'm not ashamed that I'm Russian and citizen of Russia.. and many of us are now in prisons for political pretexts when we are trying to stop this madness..

[Onkel Neal]

At Oberon, that came from me, Haha, I ninja edited my post.