What is your stance on Port Raiding?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by TorpX

This cuts to the heart of the question, doesn't it?

In this game, you find harbors that have capitol ships stacked up like Tokyo Bay on a busy day, but with defenses like sleepy Wewak on a slow night.

I can see being able to penetrate a weakly defended anchorage like Wewak, or even better, a recently captured area, where defenses would be incomplete, but to be able to get into Truk, Rabaul or the like, seems very gamey.

I get my files loaded up soon, I'll let you try my version of RSRD....try Truk harbor then......

One thing I didn't get is why Lurker and Duci for TMO didn't take time to set up proper harbor defenses, just a few random patrols for the bases like Truk.

It can put a lil load on a weak PC, but subs often had to deal with numerous fishing boats. I found by putting in numerous armed fishing boat really helped..because they will call you in if they spot you. Subnets can be tricky, but easy to put them in front of docks and I certainly used them around the west harbor where all the capital ships are docked. Adding a few minefields, lots of searchlights, heavy machine guns and shore guns to cover, you're basically forced to dive trying to come into Truk......and once in, lot's of surprises...

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Armistead

I get my files loaded up soon, I'll let you try my version of RSRD....try Truk harbor then......

Ha.. Thanks, but no thanks.

I am not one to take big risks with a career. I've felt that way ever since I made the fatal mistake of trying to do a recon in SHCE in my first career. Now I think, don't be a hero!

One thing I didn't get is why Lurker and Duci for TMO didn't take time to set up proper harbor defenses, just a few random patrols for the bases like Truk.

They were probably worn out before they got to it. Sometimes I think it would be interesting to try to set up a alternate campaign, but then I realize how much work it would be .... too many details to manage.

[Armistead]

Well. , my goal was to keep people out of capital ports, but put a few very risky special missions inside a few of them. You don't have to do it.

What made the mission hard, you do a photo recon o carriers in Truk. Once you trigger the zone sub nets spawn at the north and south entry basically trapping you. They're numerous lil exits through the reefs, but you must surface and those have guns that will end you fast. Truk is filled with armed fishing boat you would have to avoid... and seems I have 3 elite Matsu De's in there and one killer group outside the reef... Also a few DE's that may appear docked, but the speed is just set to zero, so they will wake up if they sense you and come looking...and the contact hunt time is much longer than TMO... The key to escape is a message a convoy is headed to Truk. The sub nets despawn to pretend to let them in and do have a small convoy that comes in....that's your chance to escape submerged through a small deeper minefield...Now, if the weather is bad, you might can escape through the west entry....

[TorpX]

Once you trigger the zone sub nets spawn at the north and south entry basically trapping you...

Clever. I didn't know you could do that.

Definitely not for the faint of heart.

[Spraug]

Well, I guess the overall feeling is: if it were a challenge, it would be OK, but now you can walk into Truk/ Rabaul/ Inland Sea/ Tokyo Bay and sink ships like you do your shopping. And I have to say I concur. In the beginning I did it a couple of times until I noticed that even the subchasers in port don't start chasing you once the explosions start and then it really didn't feel like a simulation anymore.

[tomoose]

....if the game lets you do it.

That being said I think it's a matter of personal choice in how you play the game.

If you play for 100% realism then you would consider the risk (in real life) of entering an enemy harbor. There are, as pointed out, historical examples of submarine skippers successfully raiding a harbor. The "limitation" is that the actual risk in the game may not be as great given the AI reaction in certain circumstances.
For my part, despite the AI probably allowing me to get away with it, I don't venture into harbors unless ordered. I personally add the artificiality of giving the enemy credit for being smarter than the AI displays.
I consider myself a cautious skipper and "realistically" don't risk my boat or crew unless it's really worth it.

If you are not a 100% realism player then go for it. No reason not to do it. Take your chance with the AI defence whether it's lame or not.

[suitednate]

Originally Posted by tomoose

....if the game lets you do it.

That being said I think it's a matter of personal choice in how you play the game.

If you play for 100% realism then you would consider the risk (in real life) of entering an enemy harbor. There are, as pointed out, historical examples of submarine skippers successfully raiding a harbor. The "limitation" is that the actual risk in the game may not be as great given the AI reaction in certain circumstances.
For my part, despite the AI probably allowing me to get away with it, I don't venture into harbors unless ordered. I personally add the artificiality of giving the enemy credit for being smarter than the AI displays.
I consider myself a cautious skipper and "realistically" don't risk my boat or crew unless it's really worth it.

If you are not a 100% realism player then go for it. No reason not to do it. Take your chance with the AI defence whether it's lame or not.

Is there ever an order to actually raid a port? I haven't seen one yet. I also may not have played long enough yet to see one. I play RFB + RSRD.

[merc4ulfate]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Well. , my goal was to keep people out of capital ports, but put a few very risky special missions inside a few of them. You don't have to do it.

So you have a tweaked version of RSRD with better harbor defenses? Nets, mines and escorts? I want this.

One question ... will it still be compatible running my current mod list?


Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
1_TMO_25_small_patch
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
Improved Ship Physics 2.6_TMO_RSRDC
TMO_Visuals_for_RSRDC
Fixed_CD_sonar_RSRDC
Classe_Balao_CamoTri
Pacific Sound Mod
Nav Map Make-Over v2.1
NMMO Airbase Add-on
NMMO v2.1 Patch 1 with AB
NMMO Maps Add-on
NMMO Pre Pearl Harbor Career Start Add-on
NMMO Reverse Ocean Colors Add-on
Less Plankton 1.2

[Sniper297]

"Is there ever an order to actually raid a port?" I've had three with stock game, photograph docked ships. One at Osaka, one in Formosa, and one in Manila Bay. The Manila Bay is the stupidest one, some escort carriers in extremely shallow water at the far north end, and there is a net but you can run over the top of it on the surface with extreme noise but no damage. Ridiculous part is whoever designed that mission failed to make sure the earliest starting date was Feb 42 or later. Since career missions are assigned at random it's possible to get that mission as the first one in an Asiatic career, and since Manila is still occupied by US forces about half the time you get up there and there's nothing to photograph since the targets were already sunk by friendly forces.

"subchasers in port don't start chasing you once the explosions start" When you fool around with the mission editor that becomes obvious - there's a checkbox for "Docked Ship", and if that's on it won't move ever. You can cruise past the front of an anchored destroyer and it will ping you, shoot at the periscope if you're close enough for them to see it, and drop depth charges (usually blowing themselves up) if you cruise past the stern close enough - but they won't get underway no matter what as long as the "Docked Ship" box is checked on in the mission editor. I'm not sure why that's even there, there's no manual for the mission editor, but it's one possible way to fix that particular problem.

for me I see no reason not to if you are in the area, I wouldn't make a point of targeting them though but if you are near a port, then its a target of opportunity like anything else so its perfectly realistic to do it.

the problem is that the game makes it unrealistically easy to do it so it just feels wrong.

if im down to a few fish i'll pop into a nearby port and send a few down before heading in to refit, I see no reason to return to port with fish still onboard.

[Riccardo1975]

Halifax and St Helena are two of my favourites. The only thing I cant stand is hitting large troop ships etc. alongside a harbour wall with keel shots, and they dont even think about sinking. Its a lot easier with acoustic torpedoes as well....

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Sniper297

"Is there ever an order to actually raid a port?" I've had three with stock game, photograph docked ships. One at Osaka, one in Formosa, and one in Manila Bay. The Manila Bay is the stupidest one, some escort carriers in extremely shallow water at the far north end, and there is a net but you can run over the top of it on the surface with extreme noise but no damage. Ridiculous part is whoever designed that mission failed to make sure the earliest starting date was Feb 42 or later. Since career missions are assigned at random it's possible to get that mission as the first one in an Asiatic career, and since Manila is still occupied by US forces about half the time you get up there and there's nothing to photograph since the targets were already sunk by friendly forces.

"subchasers in port don't start chasing you once the explosions start" When you fool around with the mission editor that becomes obvious - there's a checkbox for "Docked Ship", and if that's on it won't move ever. You can cruise past the front of an anchored destroyer and it will ping you, shoot at the periscope if you're close enough for them to see it, and drop depth charges (usually blowing themselves up) if you cruise past the stern close enough - but they won't get underway no matter what as long as the "Docked Ship" box is checked on in the mission editor. I'm not sure why that's even there, there's no manual for the mission editor, but it's one possible way to fix that particular problem.

Undock them, set speed to 0, proper waypoints and parameters....