Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Armor is on the way out.
I just don't see the feasibility, with the performance of these kind of anti-tank weapons, not to mention drones.

^ Dreadnoughts on tracks. Then came the carrier and the submarine. Dreadnought over.

Autonomous drones. In swarms. With swarm AI.

Modular design with components "made in X" where "X" could mean any of two dozen different countries capable to build them and offer them for cheap sale in any tech shop. Responsibility for any attack conducted with such a system can always be credibly denied.

Nightmare.

The future talks more war and assassinations - and not just done by nations, but gangs, organisations, corporations. Credible denial is key to reduce inhibiton levels. Boys wanna play with the toys they got.


I think big warships and carriers also are on the way out. Subs may stay around longer. From that article Neal quoted:

If the costly main battle tank is the archetypal platform of an army (as is the case for Russia and NATO), then the archetypal platform of a navy (particularly America’s Navy) is the ultra-costly capital ship, such as an aircraft carrier. Just as modern anti-tank weapons have turned the tide for the outnumbered Ukrainian army, the latest generation of anti-ship missiles (both shore- and sea-based) could in the future—say, in a place like the South China Sea or the Strait of Hormuz—turn the tide for a seemingly outmatched navy.

I think I say something like that almost as long as I am on this board, didn't I. Many people back in those years laughed at me. I remind of this: the most common and popular mistake of militaried is to think that the next war will be fought with the weapons andn tactics with which they won the last war.



Bad mistake. Proven wrong in history so very often.

[mapuc]

There's always stuff who become obsolete after a war. Or the way a war is fought.

I think things like fighter jets and tanks/AFV will somehow become obsolete. I think it will be drones who will be used offensive and fighter jet defensive.
What they will substitut tanks and AFV with I don't know

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

So this was all about keeping the Ukrainian army too busy to reinforce the Donbas front? Yeah right.

[Skybird]

Is supplementaiton to Neal's quoted article:


https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https:/...russia/627121/

[mapuc]

Just read following on twitter

Armenia handed over four Su-30 fighter jets to Russia along with specially trained pilots to take part in the war

Yerevan has denied this step.

Markus

[Moonlight]

Those jets are from the 90's aren't they?, I hope the Russians are still updating the electronics and whatnot to survive these modern missile systems or they're gonna be toast.
It doesn't matter a jot if these pilots are the worlds best airmen because if those planes aren't up to date they'll be shot down, its twitter though so its probably a load of rubbish as usual.

[tmccarthy]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Is supplementaiton to Neal's quoted article:


https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https:/...russia/627121/

I would highly recommend reading up about Eliot A. Cohen the author, his politics, and political history before reading that article.


(edit reminded me of another man named Cohen who I think is worth considering, from 2010)

[Gorpet]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I really urge you to abstain from viewing too much Tucker Carlson news and videos

Who in the hell is tucker carlson?

[Gorpet]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

You just have to visit Subsim more often .I’ve pointed out what Skybird said long before the first satellites even went into space. Just last year I mentioned DARPA and Project Blackjack. Oh yes some may have withheld information, or didn’t do their homework, but nobody lied.

Ya got to admit it’s some pretty high speed low level sneaky Pete kinda sheet. Betcha it was used to locate generals using cell phones with pin point accuracy

Well Rock. In my kid's future i don't want his satellite's and local law enforcement dropping Switchblade drones on my kid cause he and his friends parked their boat's on a sandy shore along the Saint Johns river here in Florida for a cookout and the Government declares them Enemies of the State cause their bitching about the cost of Life. Ya know what i don't even know.Really why the United States is even getting involved in something that doesn't concern us as a Nation other to make sure that Joe Biden and the democrat party's skeletons are destroyed.

[Catfish]

Did we have this already

[Jimbuna]

Delegations from Russia and Ukraine are in Istanbul for the first face-to-face talks in more than two weeks.

Ukraine says its top priority from the talks, which will begin early on Tuesday, is to negotiate a ceasefire.

Chelsea owner and Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich has turned up at the meetings.

The Kremlin dismisses reports that the billionaire was poisoned earlier this month.

It says the story is part of an "information war"

Hopes of progress at the talks are slim, with both sides playing down the chances of a breakthrough.

Turkey's President Erdogan says it's time the talks yield "concrete results"

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Russians reportedly have 100,000 troops staged, right?

Ukraine populations is like 43 million. So why don't they stage 5 million armed and supplied men on the border and give the Rooskies that's what's up.

Last reports before the invasion were ~200,000 Russian troops. Guess we see that wasn't nearly enough.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by tmccarthy

"Why then did NATO need to expand Eastward ?"

I've never known an answer for that and I've been looking back into that for an answer since the War in Ukraine started a few weeks ago. I stopped following news re international politics in the early 2000s so I had a lot of catching up to do. My last memory from the early 2000s was hearing the Baltics states had been admitted to NATO and thinking, "that sounds crazy, that is exactly how you start a war in Europe." I assumed the answer for NATO expansion was going to be the left and the right in American politics continuing policies from the cold war. Questions like, "Why did Bill Clinton initiate NATO expansion?", "Why did Barrack Obama of all people take such a leading role in this confrontation?" has led me to see that the liberal left this time actually had the leading role. Just after I posted this a few days ago I was pointed to the "Wolfowitz Doctrine" from the early 90s and now see part of the conservative rights side. It is clear to me now that US policy for the last 30 years has been at least not the best path to achieve peace, largely misguided and even dangerous. The possible conclusion was so sad and disappointing I took the last few days off from exhaustion.

My conclusion is something like this: Since the end of the cold war for 30 years three groups in Washington from within Neo-conservatives, the liberal left, and members of Republican and Democratic presidential administrations with ethnic/Jewish ties to eastern Europe have used NATO expansion in order to defend Eastern Europe and drive America into a confrontation with Russia.
I've just learned most of this in the last few weeks or even days and believe me, I know it's a lot and I've been struggling with it the entire time. None of my family or friends want to even hear that I'm uncomfortable with the amount of possible responsibility America may have in this war. Here's a playlist of sources if you want to look into this. Senator Bill Bradely (D) video from 2008 is probably the best explanation I've found re the history and issues with the expansion of NATO.

I don't know what good this will do now, but since we are talking about WW3 and nuclear war I want to at least try and understand what's really going on.


Expansion of NATO military alliance playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...v5N5YcJDJFIPa1

-Tim McCarthy
"another U.S citizen" and veteran US Army

I do agree with just about everything in your analysis. We, the U.S certainly could have handled this much better than we did. There really isn't a lot we can do about this right now, though.

Originally Posted by Catfish

So what about the russian narrative that the Ukraine would have been overrun by "Nazis"?
The word "denazify" appears in russian propaganda since the first russian invasion into Ukraine in 2014.

Putin's propaganda is targeted towards Russians for whom remembrance of the Soviet Union's victory over Nazi Germany remains perhaps the single most powerful element of a unifying national identity.
Putin is looking to the past to create motivation in the present.

"What the regime is doing is using the memory of the war, and the very deep feelings it arouses to legitimise its military actions not only in Ukraine but in many other places as well."

I found the terms like “ denazify “ to be ridiculous and very offensive. I assume as part of the Russians overall “ Maskirova, “ This language was to try to unify the greater part of Russia to their criminal invasion, as you have mentioned. Usage of that term implies, as far as I'm concerned, that Putin is living in the past with a desire to re-create the former Soviet Union.


I agree with everything you have both presented.