[REL] Multiple UIs for SH5 with TDC

[SubV]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Should I change the True bearing to Scope bearing then?

very good suggestion on the speed! I will add that and make an option (somehow) for either displaying the real speed or slow/medium/fast.

Now what speed ranges define:
- slow?
- medium?
- fast?

I'm working on adding the torpedo door toggles to the scopes

From SH3:

[ContactRange]
;under the (right) value a contact is considered as:
Short=1000 ;[m]
Medium=3000 ;[m]
Long=20000 ;[m]

[ContactSpeeds]
; less than each value means (in this order): stationary, slow, medium and fast speed ; over the last value means very fast speed

Merchant=0.1,8,12,35 ;[kts]
Warship=0.1,8,19,35 ;[kts] including uboats
Air=0.1,8,19,35 ;[kts]
Convoy=0.1,8,12,35 ;[kts]

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by SubV

From SH3:

[ContactRange]
;under the (right) value a contact is considered as:
Short=1000 ;[m]
Medium=3000 ;[m]
Long=20000 ;[m]

[ContactSpeeds]
; less than each value means (in this order): stationary, slow, medium and fast speed ; over the last value means very fast speed

Merchant=0.1,8,12,35 ;[kts]
Warship=0.1,8,19,35 ;[kts] including uboats
Air=0.1,8,19,35 ;[kts]
Convoy=0.1,8,12,35 ;[kts]

I can't currently distinguish between merchant or warship so they have to use the same values.

stationary 0 - 0.1
slow 0.1 - 6
medium 6 - 12
fast 12 - 18
very fast 18+

I'll need kylania or someone to update the speed charts with these values please

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Paco

I want this
Another request:

Is it possible to implement a torpedo data report (Schussunterlagen). So we could (my Hand or automatic) write down the firesolutions after pressing the firebuttons. For me, I calculate my firesolution and often, I missed for aexample by shots from aft torpedo. Afterwards I ask me, why did I missed, was the speed wrobg, ord false aob, etc.

With the torpedo data report, I have all data in an overview and could teach myself.... Nice to have it automatically with each torpedo

I like the idea, I'll see what I can come up with

More changes to the upcoming version:

The nav map contact spotted now only shows course and speed when the contact was a radio report contact.
Added a new user option that displays either the contact's actual speed at the time of reporting or a range value (ShowRadioContactReportsActualSpeed). The ranges are:

stationary - 0.0 to 0.1
slow - 0.1 to 6
medium - 6 to 12
fast - 12 to 18
very fast - 18+

contact spotted for a non-radio contact:


contact spotted for radio contact (notice that the speed and other information is displayed in the messagebox with the radio contact report):

[Txema]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

yes and no. True bearing is the bearing you would turn your scope to to 'see' the target. Your current scope must have been at 0 and thus it was 'following' your subs heading. Since there was no deviation from sub's heading and scope bearing the True bearing is 0.

OK, let me ask a probably dumb question: I can see that knowing the "True bearing" is usefull to be able to turn your scope to see the target, and that knowing the "Intercept" angle is usefull to set your course to that angle if you want to go towards the target... but what do you want the "bearing" information for? If it serves no clear purpose perhaps you could eliminate it from the reports to make them "cleaner"... or am I missing something?

BTW, thank you very much for all your work on this superb mod !!!


Txema

[kylania]

Originally Posted by Txema

OK, let me ask a probably dumb question: I can see that knowing the "True bearing" is usefull to be able to turn your scope to see the target, and that knowing the "Intercept" angle is usefull to set your course to that angle if you want to go towards the target... but what do you want the "bearing" information for?

Bearing is important for which direction from your ship to look. True Bearing is important for which direction from north to look and indicates basically which course to head to intercept. The current Intercept value is essentially the same as True Bearing since it doesn't take into account speed for the lead you'd need to include for a proper intercept.

If anything I'd remove "True Bearing" and change "Intercept" to read "True Bearing".

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

The nav map contact spotted now only shows course and speed when the contact was a radio report contact.

Does this mean only visual targets or does that also count single ship "radio" contacts, which would require the speed to still be listed? Even visual ones should probably have speed included since your watch crew would be able to estimate that for you. And all remote/radio contacts need to have it or else intercepts will be impossible.

[Kirby_TFS]

DW I love your mods, but one request. I don't know if you have ever looked at MOBO, but it takes into account your speed and direction along with the target's speed and direction and calculates a true intercept solution. Your intercept just points to the spot where the target is spotted. If you have any distance to cover the target is no longer there when you get to the intercept point. Would it be possible to create something like what is used in MOBO, or possibly add all the features of MOBO? You would probably need to contact Arronblood for help.

[kylania]

Originally Posted by Kirby_TFS

Would it be possible to create something like what is used in MOBO, or possibly add all the features of MOBO? You would probably need to contact Arronblood for help.

There already is a built in intercept function if you leave map contacts on. It's the little "ghost" icon that appears when you plot a course. As long as you plot it right after contact and the target doesn't zig zag it's pretty accurate.

Integrating MOBO would be pretty impossible I imagine, since it's an external program. reaper7's UI mod includes the Attack Disk which can be used to plot the things that MOBO does though, in a more historically accurate method too.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Kirby_TFS

DW I love your mods, but one request. I don't know if you have ever looked at MOBO, but it takes into account your speed and direction along with the target's speed and direction and calculates a true intercept solution. Your intercept just points to the spot where the target is spotted. If you have any distance to cover the target is no longer there when you get to the intercept point. Would it be possible to create something like what is used in MOBO, or possibly add all the features of MOBO? You would probably need to contact Arronblood for help.

Due to the distance between the sub and a radio contact there can be, and is most of the time, land masses inbetween them. This makes for trying to calculate a true intercept moot. The idea of the intercept was to give you an instant 'if I turn to this course now I'll be heading in the general direction of the contact'. It takes into account the heading of your sub.
Bearing's purpose is to inform you which side of your sub the contact is.
True bearing's purpose is to give you a heading with which to point your scope at to 'see' the contact and lock onto it. It takes into account your sub's heading.
The Bearing and True bearing are most useful if your manually plotting on the maps. That was the whole reason I included them as I use them for manually plotting. I like to plot, makes me feel like I'm doing things as they did back in the day.
In response to kylania only nav map radio contacts get speed and course information (those were radioed to you and thus someone has either spotted them or has been tracking them). To include speed and course information on regular contacts (ones spotted by your sub's sensors), in my opinion, would be cheating. At a range of 6000+ meters it would be really hard to guestimate speed and course even fairly accurately and thus I removed them.
If someone can point out any flaws in my thinking or has better suggestions I'm open to discussion. All I'm trying to do is make this as real as can possibly be done.
If my naming conventions (bearing, true bearing, intercept, etc.) are incorrect then tell me how to fix them. If we need new items then let's discuss what's missing.
I'm trying to involve everyone in this as this is for everyone, not just myself. The more discussion we have the better the end result

[Txema]

Originally Posted by kylania

Bearing is important for which direction from your ship to look. True Bearing is important for which direction from north to look and indicates basically which course to head to intercept. The current Intercept value is essentially the same as True Bearing since it doesn't take into account speed for the lead you'd need to include for a proper intercept.

If anything I'd remove "True Bearing" and change "Intercept" to read "True Bearing".

Kylania,

I think you are wrong...

- "Intercept" is which direction from north to look (north is 0 degrees) i.e. which direction you have to set your course to go towards the target.

- "Bearing" and "True Bearing" are essentially which direction to look referred to your U-boat bow and not to the north (your U-boat bow is 0 degrees)... I think that "Bearing" and "True bearing" are essentialy the same... actually they have normally the same value... or their value is related by adding or subtracting 360 degrees...

Am I right, TheDrakWraith??

[SteelViking]

TDW, I completely agree that at ranges like 6000m+ there would be no way to figure speed or course with any accuracy. However, what about when ships get close, will there still be no information on them at any range? Also perhaps as a compromise you could put range values (ie slow, medium, etc) on them to simulate a rough estimate.

Edit: kylania has a good idea, I think having an option for it would make the most people happy.

[Txema]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Bearing's purpose is to inform you which side of your sub the contact is.
True bearing's purpose is to give you a heading with which to point your scope at to 'see' the contact and lock onto it. It takes into account your sub's heading.

OK, TheDarkWraith, I see, but then the "Bearing" information is quite redundant because you can get it very quickly from the "True bearing": if the "True bearing" is larger than 180 degrees, then the contact is on the left side, and if the "True bearing" is smaller than 180 degrees, then the contact is on the right side... But I understand that having that value can be confortable for some people... In any case I think that if the "true bearing" is smaller that 180 degrees its value is identical to that of the "bearing", and if the "true bearing" is larger than 180 degrees then you can get the "bearing" just by subtracting 360 degrees... Am I right?

In any case I understand that having both values can be usefull for some people and it is your choice to keep both or eliminate one of them.

Anyway, thank you very much for this mod. Without doubt, IMO, it is the most important one for SH5 !!!


Txema

[kylania]

Originally Posted by Txema

Kylania,

I think you are wrong...

- "Intercept" is which direction from north to look (north is 0 degrees) i.e. which direction you have to set your course to go towards the target.

That's what I said kinda, though that's not really an "intercept" course since if you traveled that direction you'd end up way behind the contact since it's moving. Calling the current "Intercept" as "True Bearing" would match what it's displaying, the true bearing to look at the reported contact position.

- "Bearing" and "True Bearing" are essentially which direction to look referred to your U-boat bow and not to the north (your U-boat bow is 0 degrees)... I think that "Bearing" and "True bearing" are essentialy the same... actually they have normally the same value... or their value is related by adding or subtracting 360 degrees...

Everything else in game bearing related is either "True", based cardinal directions, ie: North = Up, or "Relative", based on your boat's orientation.

True Bearing bearing of 90 = due East. Relative bearing of 90 = directly starboard. True bearing of 180 = due South. Relative bearing of 180 = behind you.

The current implementation of True Bearing and Bearing ends up with really odd things. Like I was heading towards a ship, but my bow was slightly behind it and my scope was pointing at it's bow. I was told True Bearing was 358 and Bearing was -2. Mathematically it makes sense. I'd have to turn "back" or to starboard to line back up, but the True Bearing was how many degrees I'd have to turn to my scope to line back up, a full circle essentially. Very confusing numbers. What probably should have happened was bearing would be 002 since it was just barely starboard and True Bearing should have been 300 since it was NNW of my location.

I'll admit I have no idea how these values are getting calculated, and I'm impressed they can be period. But working on the assumption of "true" = cardinal directions and "relative" = based on my boat's orientation, the current values can get confusing, at least to me.


@DarkWraith -

As far as not displaying the speed for close in ships because it's "cheating", I agree, but I can also see the value in making it an option since some people do want to "cheat" if that's how they play the game. Like the speed is displayed on the Show Info tab, and that's been made an option so those who don't want to see it won't and those that do, can. Just a suggestion.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by SteelViking

TDW, I completely agree that at ranges like 6000m+ there would be no way to figure speed or course with any accuracy. However, what about when ships get close, will there still be no information on them at any range? Also perhaps as a compromise you could put range values (ie slow, medium, etc) on them to simulate a rough estimate.

Originally Posted by Txema

OK, TheDarkWraith, I see, but then the "Bearing" information is quite redundant because you can get it very quickly from the "True bearing": if the "True bearing" is larger than 180 degrees, then the contact is on the left side, and if the "True bearing" is smaller than 180 degrees, then the contact is on the right side... But I understand that having that value can be confortable for some people... In any case I think that if the "true bearing" is smaller that 180 degrees its value is identical to that of the "bearing", and if the "true bearing" is larger than 180 degrees then you can get the "bearing" just by subtracting 360 degrees... Am I right?

In any case I understand that having both values can be usefull for some people and it is your choice to keep both or eliminate one of them.

Anyway, thank you very much for this mod. Without doubt, IMO, it is the most important one for SH5 !!!


Txema

Originally Posted by Txema

Kylania,

I think you are wrong...

- "Intercept" is which direction from north to look (north is 0 degrees) i.e. which direction you have to set your course to go towards the target.

- "Bearing" and "True Bearing" are essentially which direction to look referred to your U-boat bow and not to the north (your U-boat bow is 0 degrees)... I think that "Bearing" and "True bearing" are essentialy the same... actually they have normally the same value... or their value is related by adding or subtracting 360 degrees...

Am I right, TheDrakWraith??

Intercept references the sub's course and thus is referenced to true north. It also references the contacts bearing from the sub. With that information it calculates the intercept heading. That is the heading that if you turned to that heading you would be heading straight towards the contact at that moment in time.

Bearing is +- 180 degrees referenced to the bow of the sub. Positive values are starboard, Negative values are port. Bearing tells you where the contact is in relation to the bow of the sub.

True Bearing is calculated from the sub's heading and the target's bearing. Say you are paralleling a target on your port. Your sub's heading and the target's heading are 090. Bearing would be -90. True bearing would be 0 if you were directly in line with the contact. If you were ahead of the contact then true beaing would be < 360 and if you were behind the target then true bearing would be > 0. True bearing tells you were to set the heading bar in the scopes view to 'see' the target.

I've added a new user option RangeStartUpdatingRadioContactReportsCourse. It's pupose is when to start updating the contacts course value in the contact spotted text (value is in kms and default is 8). If the contact's range is less than this value then, theoretically, your watch crew should be able to discern the course of the contact. This value only gets updated when you can visually see the contacts (either surfaced or if submerged then from a scopes view). If you can't see the contacts then their last course value will be frozen until you can 'see' them again.

[Seefer]

Since updating to 2.5.0 I seem to have an issue with the torpedo speed switch for tube number 2. Clicking on it does nothing and it stays on speed 1. Switching speeds for all other tubes seems to be functioning fine.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Seefer

Since updating to 2.5.0 I seem to have an issue with the torpedo speed switch for tube number 2. Clicking on it does nothing and it stays on speed 1. Switching speeds for all other tubes seems to be functioning fine.

must be a bug introduced with patch 1.2 then. I haven't played with/touched the torpedo speed switches yet.