[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI)

[ZygfrydDeLowe]

Originally Posted by sober

[...] Would require a campaign restart afaik .

Are you sure about that? I also had a severe case of uber-destroyers when I tried to do the Scapa Flow mission. Even when silent on 30-50 meters (en route to Scapa) in a heavy storm they just started to converge on me once (I assume) I crossed a certain distance threshold.

So I lowered some settings (0,5 to 0,9) I think and it seem to work, after loading of the game I was able to sneak by them more easily - but I might be mistaken, since it wasn't a test in the same conditions.

Right now I have visual and hydro sensitivity set to 0,65 - 0,95 for non-merchants. But they still sometimes present the described type of behaviour.

Also - is there automatic distance threshold when the unit is alerted about your presence? Because going at night close to some escorts trigger them to turn on search lights and "play" siren/alarm sound.

[Defiance]

Hehe,

I love it as it is

Nowt like damage all around and your nerves are shot and the batteries are draining faster than water through a sieve

With rsd and real u boat performance it's a rush when you let yourself get seen

I just play the sim, know basics about subs, but i try to do what a captain would in rl i think, main thing, daylight is deadly on surface especially close to land

Keep batts charged, take time and think 'what if' and check horizon (pardon the pun) like your life depends on it hehe

Bear in mind i am still at the opening stages of career, and i realize things get way tougher (maybe i'll want to tone things down then lol)

Just keeps getting better and better for me with more realism

(just been homing in on a darn whale, first i've seen so far, now i'll know what not to home in soujnd-wise for the future

[gap]

Originally Posted by Sartoris

Is there a way to check how the parameters sober mentions were set in SH4 so we could try using those in SH5? If that's at all possible, of course...

I don't think so. If memory serves me well, those AI difficulty configurable settings were introduced by TDW. There should be nothing like that in any SH4 mod, unless it includes an SH4 version of IRAI

Originally Posted by ZygfrydDeLowe

Also - is there automatic distance threshold when the unit is alerted about your presence? Because going at night close to some escorts trigger them to turn on search lights and "play" siren/alarm sound.

Being dictated by AI sensor's range settings, that distance should depend on the sensors that the pursuing units are equipped with and on a number of environmental factors which may affect the sensitivity of those sensors.

[Sartoris]

How long do DDs search for you once they manage to latch onto you?

I often experience hours and hours of evasion after an attack, and the escorts tend to search for me even after the entire convoy they're "protecting" has vanished from sight long ago.

It just strikes me as unrealistic that every escort would abandon their convoy in the hopes of finding little old me, and then dedicating tens of hours to this process. Yes, it makes it really difficult to stay alive because the escorts basically force you to surface eventually due to CO2, but it doesn't really make for fun gameplay when the game boils down to evading ten escorts for dozens of hours because they're able to locate me with pinpoint accuracy even when I'm at 150 meters, silent running and standing perfectly still...

[Sartoris]

Just had another one of those "supernaturally observant escorts" moments. I sneaked my way between two columns of a convoy and successfully torpedoed one ship and damaged another. Dropped down to 150 meters, silent running, ahead slow. I'm hoping to get lost among all the merchants. But nope. All the escorts immediately beeline towards my exact position, and one depth charge later I'm dead. No search patterns, nothing. The escorts immediately know where I am, no matter what I do. I know that it would be wiser to attack the convoy from the outside, but even in such cases the escorts never spend too much time before locating me. I'd really appreciate it if someone could share some ideas on evasive tactics.

[THE_MASK]

Originally Posted by Sartoris

Just had another one of those "supernaturally observant escorts" moments. I sneaked my way between two columns of a convoy and successfully torpedoed one ship and damaged another. Dropped down to 150 meters, silent running, ahead slow. I'm hoping to get lost among all the merchants. But nope. All the escorts immediately beeline towards my exact position, and one depth charge later I'm dead. No search patterns, nothing. The escorts immediately know where I am, no matter what I do. I know that it would be wiser to attack the convoy from the outside, but even in such cases the escorts never spend too much time before locating me. I'd really appreciate it if someone could share some ideas on evasive tactics.

Try my mega mod and start a new career . Tell me what you think . It has some IRAI tweaks .

[Sartoris]

Originally Posted by sober

Try my mega mod and start a new career . Tell me what you think . It has some IRAI tweaks .

I'm currently using the Wolves of Steel mega mod, and I'd like to keep using it, so I'd be really grateful if you could tell me how to tweak IRAI to match your own mod. I assume it entails changing some numbers that affect the escorts' sensors?

Originally Posted by Sartoris

How long do DDs search for you once they manage to latch onto you?

I often experience hours and hours of evasion after an attack, and the escorts tend to search for me even after the entire convoy they're "protecting" has vanished from sight long ago.

It just strikes me as unrealistic that every escort would abandon their convoy in the hopes of finding little old me, and then dedicating tens of hours to this process. Yes, it makes it really difficult to stay alive because the escorts basically force you to surface eventually due to CO2, but it doesn't really make for fun gameplay when the game boils down to evading ten escorts for dozens of hours because they're able to locate me with pinpoint accuracy even when I'm at 150 meters, silent running and standing perfectly still...

I'm still just getting started with a new campaign after doing all my upgrades and resolving my CTDs, so I haven't encountered anything yet and don't know if things are with or worse with the upgrades.

With the previous versions, if I did TC higher than 2 or 4, escorts would zero in on my like that as well - frustrating to say the least. I would often end up going deep like you did, but shutting down my engines and going silent. That was one of the only methods for me that would have them eventually leave. I read lately that people go to 1 knot, then scoot out. I plan to try that on my first encounter.

As for them hanging around unrealistically, I thought it odd as well until I started reading Iron Coffins. Ironically, yesterday I read this: "Nine hours passed, and the escorts were still throwing their cans." followed later by "But as the day came to an end, the three escorts turned away and sped after their convoy." So apparently not unrealistic after all.

Originally Posted by Sartoris

I'm currently using the Wolves of Steel mega mod, and I'd like to keep using it, so I'd be really grateful if you could tell me how to tweak IRAI to match your own mod. I assume it entails changing some numbers that affect the escorts' sensors?

Check ZygfrydDeLowe's post above regarding some tweaks. Somewhere in this thread there is discussion about toning down these uber abilities that the escorts have. You'll have to search the thread manually or maybe someone can pipe in directly as to the file and the section that needs to be edited, because I'm not sure where that info is at the moment.

[Sartoris]

Originally Posted by 7Infanterie19

I'm still just getting started with a new campaign after doing all my upgrades and resolving my CTDs, so I haven't encountered anything yet and don't know if things are with or worse with the upgrades.

With the previous versions, if I did TC higher than 2 or 4, escorts would zero in on my like that as well - frustrating to say the least. I would often end up going deep like you did, but shutting down my engines and going silent. That was one of the only methods for me that would have them eventually leave. I read lately that people go to 1 knot, then scoot out. I plan to try that on my first encounter.

As for them hanging around unrealistically, I thought it odd as well until I started reading Iron Coffins. Ironically, yesterday I read this: "Nine hours passed, and the escorts were still throwing their cans." followed later by "But as the day came to an end, the three escorts turned away and sped after their convoy." So apparently not unrealistic after all.




Check ZygfrydDeLowe's post above regarding some tweaks. Somewhere in this thread there is discussion about toning down these uber abilities that the escorts have. You'll have to search the thread manually or maybe someone can pipe in directly as to the file and the section that needs to be edited, because I'm not sure where that info is at the moment.

Appreciate the insight, I guess then that the fact the escorts hang around so long isn't as unrealistic as I thought.

Do share your experiences with escorts once you play more with your new campaign, I'd really like to hear if the tactic of going deep and remaining silent works for you. The last time I attacked a convoy from the inside that tactic failed miserably...

Will do Sartoris!

From reading that book, I'm amazed at how those captains did a lot of surface attacks and maneuvered between the waves within less (sometimes a lot less) than 2000-4000 m of escorts AND managed to sink multiple targets before speeding off and not getting noticed, or charging full into the middle of the convoy and submerging afterwards to ease evasion. Fascinating stuff! I'm really enjoying this book, btw. I think I remember stumbling on some discussions in the forums about these tactics not being so easy to mirror in the game.

[Sartoris]

Originally Posted by 7Infanterie19

Will do Sartoris!

From reading that book, I'm amazed at how those captains did a lot of surface attacks and maneuvered between the waves within less (sometimes a lot less) than 2000-4000 m of escorts AND managed to sink multiple targets before speeding off and not getting noticed, or charging full into the middle of the convoy and submerging afterwards to ease evasion. Fascinating stuff! I'm really enjoying this book, btw. I think I remember stumbling on some discussions in the forums about these tactics not being so easy to mirror in the game.

Cool, I'll try to find a copy of that book, sound like fascinating reading material!

Whoa!

It's only early September 1939 in OHII v2.5. As I got close to the English coast after sunrise, planes suddenly pounced all over me out of nowhere, causing huge damage (I imagine it would probably be worse if I had RSD installed). My crew only spotted them at maybe 3000 or 4000 m away, so I didn't even have time to dive fast enough. This was with TC 32 or 64, IIRC, and with my settings set to drop TC to zero with a plane sighting.

I thought it was a glitch or something , so I reloaded my save to test things out a few times at different TC, speeds and direction. It's like the planes are just waiting for us like a cat sitting by the mouse hole. My watch crew doesn't see them quick enough anymore.
"Uhh, hello! Put out your cigs, stop listening to your iPods and watch the skies, damnit!"
Even with low or no TC, I'd get whacked on most of my tests. Man, it's insane. With campaigns in older mod versions, I remember thinking "ok, better kick butt now, because once air cover ramps up in later years, it's going to be no picnic", but now "early years" is the new "later years". I can't even begin to imagine how much harder it will be in later years - if I'm still alive to make it that far.

I remember my watch crew spotting planes much earlier before the upgrades of IRAI, UIs, FX, and OHII, giving me time to submerge at least. With earlier versions, if I wanted to, I had the choice of fighting back with the flak gun or not, but I'm not brave - or foolish - enough to try that anymore. I guess I'll be selling my flak gun on eBay since it's of no use to me now, and I'll be replacing my "Man the flak guns" command with "ALLLLLAAAAARRRRRRMMMMMMM!"

Is this fast - and highly accurate - plane behaviour related to the latest IRAI or another of those mods or the combination thereof?

Isn't it too early in the war to be encountering this reaction from the Allies?

At what distance should the watch crew be able to see planes on a day with zero precip and zero fog?

How do you guys feel about these settings - too much or just right?

I know Defiance loves it:

Originally Posted by Defiance

Hehe, I love it as it is ....

... daylight is deadly on surface especially close to land

[THEBERBSTER]

EBCW has now become a very dangerous area on the surface.

I have played this a few times but have never experienced the aggressiveness with the new mods.

I dare not go over TC4 during the day or you are taking a big chance of suddenly being straffed.

I have been twice so far, luckily only 2% damage as I was able to react to some degree.

I thought it was safe late evening 21.00 but there were still patrols about often in pairs.

I think I remember Sober commenting about this fairly recently.

Keeps you on your toes, Oh boy.

Peter

If EBCW is this dangerous in 1939, I wonder how it will be on the other side (cringe ). IMO, I still think it's too soon in the war to be experiencing this, though. If my watch crew would spot aircraft like they did before, I would probably think differently, but like this, I just don't know.

I agree about late evening. I figured that it's still a gamble heading out when the icon is still evening-red and not night-blue yet. The problem with all this is that there's not enough time to recharge batteries at night. Rolling at 2 knots submerged during the day eats 50% of my batteries (in less than 8 hours). In one of the loading screens, I read that a VII can go on batteries for 36 hours at 2 knots, which means that I seem to be getting less than 25% of that . I'm going to probably have to either lower my speed to 1 knot or just sit there (which will be boring, of course). How do you handle that, Peter?

Originally Posted by THEBERBSTER

Keeps you on your toes, Oh boy.

lol .. I'll try, but considering that I stubbed one of them during a crash dive, it's gonna be tough for a while!

[THEBERBSTER]

To say daytime now is difficult is an understatement.

When I played before there was a channel into the Tyne with a few escorts that were quite easy to get around.

Not now both the ports Blyth and Tyne are right on the coast.

I never realized this as I came down from Scapa thinking I could use the same tactic.

I was spotted by an escort but I dived and went 2 knots and started a full rudder manoeuver.

When I looked through the Periscope there were 7 escorts that had been patrolling off the coast line coming after me.

There was also a MTB charging around on fire.

After several hours of Silent Routine and stop starting I managed to shake the escorts off.

Needed a lot of patience.

As it was now 20.00 I plotted a new course to the patrol area when at 21.00 at TC4 I was suddenly straffed.

It was quite dark and the only thing I can think of is that the fighter just got lucky as it was heading directly at me.

I am in the patrol grid and my TC will be around 2 to 4 max during the day as I am a reasonable distance off the coast I should get better warning at this distance.

I will only dive if I have to during the day.

At night I will dive and use the hydro every 2 hours.

I agree that if this the offensive performance now at this stage of the war, then I think we could be in for a real pasting in the months to come.

All I have found in the patrol area so far is 90 tons.

I only hope the likelihood of further sustained injury is going to be worth the end result.

Peter