US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Catfish]

^ Nothing. You obviously did not even look at the site, they make no decison here about left or right, only that they are a bit loose with facts.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

You can't prove a negative.

Follow the motives. Who benefits?

The world financial system has accumulated plenty of additional stress. The dollar is under pressure as a leading reserve currency. The EU writhes with the economic aftermaths and the desperate attempts to battle delcine ion eocniomc dveleopoment and negative growth. Not much easier it is for the US.

Meanwhile China's economy grows again already, I saw 3, 4 weeks ago in a TV documentary. It bought its way deep into africa and even the EU's flank with its vaccine policy, additional to its credits policy.

Did China suffer? Yes. The point is: it can compensate these losses easier than the West, and get over it faster and easier, while the West whistles with the aftermath, suffers higher losses more doffocult to deal with. By relative comparison of the two, China's global leadership project benefits from all this, and tremendously so. They want ther lead. No matter what, no matter how. They want it, under all circumstances. Who leads, has the say. Its China's mission to see itself as the centre of the world around which all others have to revolve.

And to expand the scope a bit: thats why I refuse to rule out completely that the virus indeed was an intentional attack on the world. Its not the only scenario I think is possible and realistic. But I refuse to take it off the table: its possible, and for an actor as brutal, unscrupulous and determined and militaristic and aggressive as China: absolutely possible to imagine.

And yes, if true, it would be needed to be called world war.

I give the lab escape theory and the zoonose theory higher probabilities, however. But I have this on the scoreboard on rank three.


There is too much opportunism in Catfish'S willingness to accept lacking evidence as case-deciding already. I also see the strong motives to prevent any evidence ever emerging. What china wants, global leadership that is, is a very clear and strong motive.

[Buddahaid]

It's still not proof which is what people are demanding and I doubt if people would believe it if it ever is found. Alternate truth and all that entails. If it isn't what I think it is it must be wrong mentality.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ Nothing. You obviously did not even look at the site, they make no decison here about left or right, only that they are a bit loose with facts.

I know you won’t be able to tell me but I have to ask, loose with what facts? All I ask is please keep it within the confines of the topic at hand.

I’m concerned wether Fauci was trying to cover his own arse and his friend Daszak when he initially said, to the delight of all the Democrat bootlickers, the Lab was not the source of the pandemic. I want to know the facts about why after the Obama administration stopped funding. The god man hero of the Democrats and liberal elitists around the world was funneling money through EcoHealth Alliance thereby allowing gain of function experiments continue. I want to know why he lied to congress. Over 4 MILLION people dead did Fauci contribute to this?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

It's still not proof which is what people are demanding and I doubt if people would believe it if it ever is found. Alternate truth and all that entails. If it isn't what I think it is it must be wrong mentality.

Yeah, thats true, and true for both camps. Hawks will not believe because they are hawks, and doves will not believe evidence for Chinese guilt because it busts peacey illusions.

I'm quite hawkish myself on China, based and caused by their very own behaviour and policy over the years, but from some point on I would accept the "evidence of no evidence found" as a temporary settlement of the conflict (because the bigger conflict between the world and China will not end). Its just that I found the limited and extremely manipulated and obscured research the (China-obedient) WHO ran, not convincing, right because the Chinese cracked down so heavily on its work. If that "research" then results in "no evidence found", I am not impressed at all. I only see the waste of time in it.

[Skybird]

The hypocricy of Nord Stream 2 critics.

https://translate.google.com/transla...-17449724.html


I stick to it, it always has been, and most dominantly, about selfish economical interests of the US, the UK, France. Poland also must be posted, because they hoped to build their own pipeline project in the region, to US terminals near or in Denmark, for financial and blackmalign advantage face to face with the EU and - Germany once again.

The moment the Germans said they get a direct pipeline themseleves to join an established club of Western nations ansd big Wetsenr oil compoanies like Exxon and BP and Total, all others immediately cracked down on it to keep it down and the unwanted rival out. While themselves they all are comfortably in bed with Rosneft.

Not surprising, but still: hypocrisy of the finest. And Ted Cruz? One of the loudest US critics simply wanted to sell his state's own overpriced gas to Europe, more of it than it already does. Just that nobody over here wanted any more than already is being bought for those excessive prices asked. The German govenrment asked around in the industry whether there would be any interested customers. They found - none. Not a single one. Nobody. Too overpriced, they heard. Too dirty, they heard. Needs too much post-processing, they were told. No competitive offer, they were told. So they terminated the plan to build additional terminals for US gas tankers (as was offered as a concession). But a billion and more for a terminal that sees no ship using it?

I've said it from all beginning on when they started to bang the wardrums: oldfashioned, classical hypocrisy, hypocrisy, hypocrisy! Pure and undisguised.

[Catfish]

It’s not the liberals favorite Wikipedia but for those with a rational mind it will do https://childrenshealthdefense.org/d...tion-campaign/

So you really think a rational mind would pick this website?

Originally Posted by Rockstar

What does your biased bias fact checking tell you about the fact the so-called right wing Children’s Health Defence and a left wing socialist Jimmy Dore are saying the same thing?

But again it does not say the site is right-wing. If you allege that hare-brained conspiracy theories are automatically right wing... but it even seems to have a "left" founder:

"Founded in 2016 as the World Mercury Project which was renamed Children’s Health Defense, is an anti-vaccine nonprofit pseudoscience organization. It was founded and is chaired by Robert F. Kennedy Jr who is an American environmental attorney, author, and opponent of vaccination. Kennedy is a son of Robert F. Kennedy and nephew of former president John F. Kennedy."

So founded by a "left" democrat?

I think bias fact check is doing quite a good job. Again, in this case they do not even say whether this "Children's health defense" or "The Defender" or whatsitcalled website is left or right, they just say it does not present facts, but wrong information:

Conspiracy level: strong
Pseudo sci level: quackery
Factual reporting: low

With LOTS of examples and evidence if you care to read.

"promoting anti-vaccination propaganda the Children Health Defense has also promoted the debunked conspiracy that fluoride lowers the IQ in children. At this time there is not enough evidence to make that claim. Other conspiracies and/or pseudoscience promoted on this website include the dangers of 5G ..."

"In review, Children’s Health Defense primarily publishes news and information that is skeptical of vaccines and their safety. The website also features a research section that typically does not align with the consensus of science regarding vaccines and other scientific matters."

So why should i believe or consider what a proven bull website writes? You may have a point or two, but this is not really supporting any.

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I know you won’t be able to tell me but I have to ask, loose with what facts? All I ask is please keep it within the confines of the topic at hand.

A topic made up by this website? There are no "facts", so why should i consider this? Reuters, AP News, BBC and so on, when they publish something it may be worth to consider it, but this?

"Fauci was trying to cover his own arse
Democrat bootlickers
god man hero of the Democrats and liberal elitists
he [Fauci] lied to congress
Over 4 MILLION people dead did Fauci contribute to this"

Your unbiased and neutral view?

I want to know the facts about why after the Obama administration stopped funding

But i am not able to tell you this, those accusations are not from me and i do not have to defend them. Maybe Trump stopped it because of his view on China? We all know how well funded his claims are and that he has been the utmost spearhead of truth.
But even if he is right, evidence please:

1st about the lab leak (entirely possible, if intended or not)
2nd how Fauci "lied to congress"

I only see a few plausible theories and a lot of conspiracy ones.


edit:
if there was this "gain of function research" in the Wuhan laboratory, it has to be proven by the accuser.
If it was Fauci who initiated tis knowingly, this also applies.

Plot twist: The US directed willingly a gain of function research for trying to create a biological weapon, but did it in China so no US law was breached, and China knows about it but cannot admit it ..

[Rockstar]

Low hanging fruit, tic toc tic toc, inner circles, Russian collusion, blah blah

[Rockstar]

“Let them eat cake.”



Tic tock tic tock, inner circle, Trump, low hanging fruit, blah blah

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699

A more general point is that any evaluation of research and the risks involved can be subjective.

Rebecca Moritz of Colorado State University told the BBC: "There is not always consensus [on gain-of-function research] even amongst experts, and institutions interpret and apply policy differently."

https://de.scribd.com/document/50824...e-Fact-Checker

[Rockstar]

We were federally funding GOF experiments and even conducting them in the U.S. until Obama stopped it because of the dangers involved.

From what I’ve been reading and depending on who you ask. The thought is NIH was funding EcoHealth Alliance who then contributed to GOF experiments in Wuhan. That’s the way I understand it.

In the beginning of the pandemic Daszak was very greatfull to Fauci. When Fauci decreed the lab leak theory was debunked before anyone had a chance to ask what happened.

People are just now starting to publicly ask questions and trying to piece the puzzle together. Fauci has now changed his tune and said it could have been a lab leak. Personally, if he knew about it and was covering for Daszak. Damn them both to hell. 4 million dead.

[Strykr]

PATRIOTS...
Are in control.

When do you arrest the shoplifter ???

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

We were federally funding GOF experiments and even conducting them in the U.S. until Obama stopped it because of the dangers involved.

From what I’ve been reading and depending on who you ask. The thought is NIH was funding EcoHealth Alliance who then contributed to GOF experiments in Wuhan. That’s the way I understand it.

In the beginning of the pandemic Daszak was very greatfull to Fauci. When Fauci decreed the lab leak theory was debunked before anyone had a chance to ask what happened.

People are just now starting to publicly ask questions and trying to piece the puzzle together. Fauci has now changed his tune and said it could have been a lab leak. Personally, if he knew about it and was covering for Daszak. Damn them both to hell. 4 million dead.

Sure, there might be something to that, then again, the lab leak hypothesis has never been nailed down and people like Dr. Fauci are compelled to report what the facts support at the time, not speculations to support a political narrative and besides, people have been asking questions and trying to piece the puzzle together from the beginning with questionable cooperation from the Chinese.

On the other hand, the former president appears to simply have made up stories to fit his agenda at the time with little regard for finding any truth as long as it played to his supporters.

[Rockstar]

One said it came was a lab leak the other said it was a natural spillover. Makes no sense to me how anyone other than by bringing divisive politics into the fray can claim one made up stories while the other by some miracle had facts. The fact is neither have put forward conclusive evidence of origin. And frankly all of it will probably be buried and forgotten.

And while Trump is most likely still thinking lab leak which I bet he heard as a possible source from one of his intel briefings. The only opinion that has changed is Fauci’s who after finally being pressed went from decreeing natural spillover to well ya we need to look into the lab leak theory. Going so far as to blame the Chinese in an attempt to deflect responsibility during his testimony before the Senator.

It seems Fauci’s ‘fact’ is really just a deliberate act to obscure the truth or wishful thinking to make himself the hero of the hour.

[mapuc]

This is nothing but pure speculations.

Could it be so, that the vaccine has been underway long before we were witness to the first Covid-19 case ?

I can't put the finger on where the problem is..but there are things which seems not right here.

Markus