Titanic firm submersible missing.

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Through triangulation of various sensors, Sosus is more accurate than than what may be believed. Also, with more sophisticated and powerful computers that are programed to detect anomalies, it's a lot easier to differentiate and filter events like an implosion from background noises like marine life that are Indigenous to the oceans as opposed to ships and the like.

Sosus also recorded the loss of the Scorpion (SSN-589 ) Navy Scientist John P. Craven confirmed that many times in interviews.

Triangulation tells you WHERE something has happened, but not WHAT has happened. Finding out what has happened just by its sounds is difficult enough at the surface and in the air, but a real challenge underwater. Of course the location could have given clues and they could have (and likely will have) made a presumption, but it takes time to confirm it.

[Jimbuna]

Hopefully the end came in the blink of an eye and not like that in the movie below.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Hopefully the end came in the blink of an eye and not like that in the movie below.[/url]

I'm not sure if I want to know I'm about to die or if I want to remain oblivious? They told my brother in his last hour that there was nothing they could do for him, but my father just got to drift off in his sleep unknowingly as far as I could tell. I'm just not sure which is better.

How fast is an implosion versus how fast for pain receptors to receive input?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by em2nought

I'm just not sure which is better.

Agreed

[Bilge_Rat]

In the case of the USS thresher, it was estimated the implosion occured in less than 0.1 second or too fast to realize what is happening, i.e. they died instantly.

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by em2nought

How fast is an implosion versus how fast for pain receptors to receive input?

The implosion is much faster. The people aboard were dead before their brains could have processed the information that the submersible had imploded. Death can hardly come faster than this.



There are public pictures around of the recovered submersible parts being unloaded in St. Jons, Canada, for example in this article
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...rd/ar-AA1dakj7
or this video




It's easy to see that the recovered parts are elements from the bow and the aft of the submersible. Those parts were made of titanium, and considering what has happened they are surprisingly intact.
The carbon fiber "tube", the main section, is simply gone, it will have broken into thousands of small pieces. Everything inside was then pressed within milliseconds into the titanium parts (especially at the front).

The small transparent section in the bow cupola has been blown out completely (you can see it missing in the pictures), which should give an impression of the force of the pressure. I'd wager a guess that this piece of transparent material (was it made of glass? I don't know) is still in one piece, somewhere on the seabed of the Atlantic.

[Exocet25fr]

[em2nought]

Oh, now they start keep the Titan tarped against the harmful effects of the sun.

[Exocet25fr]

Curious for an implosion !?, the pieces aren't completly destroyed !, look at the front cover.....?. Maybe it was a waterway, and after ths sub sunk to the seafloor....No?

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by Exocet25fr

...No?

No. Carbon fiber composite is strong but when it fails, it shatters.
The titanium end plugs were stronger than the carbon hull, which is why they survived.

[Platapus]

More than you ever wanted to know about Carbon Fiber...
Carbon Fiber is strong in tension, but not so strong in compression
People have to realize what Carbon Fiber is. It is carbon fibers in a plastic resin. The full correct name is Carbon fiber-reinforced polymers (CFRP).
It is not magic. It is mixing types of fiber in types of plastic.

It is a compound composite consisting of two parts: a matrix and a reinforcement. In CFRP the reinforcement is carbon fiber, which provides its strength. The matrix is usually a thermosetting plastic, such as polyester resin, to bind the reinforcements together.
Unlike steel and such, CFRPs have directional strength properties. Meaning that they are strong only in the dimension that they are designed to be strong in. This means that there is no such thing as an all purpose CFRP when strength is involved.

Reporting was that the CEO purchased CFRP at a discounted price because it was left over. Unless the strength dimension matches your intended use, this may not be such a swell idea.

CFRPs are not used when strength is required, but when there is a strength to weight requirement. It is a compromise between strength and weight with weight normally being the desired factor. If you want to make something strong and don't care about weight, you use metals. If you are primarily interested in weight, you use plastics.

The biggest problem with CFRPs, and especially in this context, is that there is no way to calculate what is called fatigue limits or how long the CFRP will survive repeated flexing or deformation. With metals, smart people can calculate this pretty well. But because so much depends on the compound composition and structure of CFRPs, only a rough approximation can be made.
BTW, CFRPs don't like changes in temperature and moisture. Two things that really can't be avoided in a deep submersible.

When no one else makes submarines out of CFRP, there just might be a good reason.

In short, there are many many great applications of CFRPs. Making a submarine just ain't one of them.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Platapus

More than you ever wanted to know about Carbon Fiber...

Reporting was that the CEO purchased CFRP at a discounted price because it was left over.

I read someplace that he misinterpreted the meaning of "substandard"

[Jimbuna]

The Titanic Foundation is investigating whether the boss of the fatal tourist submersible misled its foremost expert to get them aboard the doomed expedition.

The group, spearheaded by victim Paul-Henri Nargeolet, is probing owner Stockton Rush’s numerous claims about his Titan underwater craft.

This comes just days after a submersible expert suggested Nargeolet’s trips on the sub “legitimised” the OceanGate vessel despite numerous concerns over its safety.

[Bilge_Rat]

Very interesting article on the "Titan". Seems a lot of people in the Deep Sea diving community had concerns about the design.


https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-rep...ting-to-happen

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-rep...ting-to-happen

A most interesting article.

Rush eventually decided that he would not attempt to have the Titanic-bound vehicle classed by a marine-certification agency such as DNV. He had no interest in welcoming into the project an external evaluator who would, as he saw it, “need to first be educated before being qualified to ‘validate’ any innovations.”

Yeah. I think that is what is called in the business as "poor judgement" . These inspectors are too stupid to recognize Rush's super genius.

Rush replied four days later, saying that he had “grown tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation and new entrants from entering their small existing market.” He understood that his approach “flies in the face of the submersible orthodoxy, but that is the nature of innovation,” he wrote. “We have heard the baseless cries of ‘you are going to kill someone’ way too often. I take this as a serious personal insult.”

If you’re not breaking things, you’re not innovating,” Rush said, at the GeekWire Summit last fall. “If you’re operating within a known environment, as most submersible manufacturers do—they don’t break things. To me, the more stuff you’ve broken, the more innovative you’ve been.”

I am just sorry that innocent people had to die because of his hubris and ego.



requiescat in pace