Gun Control thread (merged many)

[Armistead]

They'll spend all this time posturing, but this bill won't pass in the end, except in some water downed fashion, but that's probably the goal.

[MH]

and I did once think that the AR-15 was an assault rifle.

Not that it matters but what is it then?
Ok....it is not like call of duty i agree.

[August]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Reguarding Fienstien, (aka "The googly eyed Harpy")

I, and many others have noticed how she seems to think that PTSD is "relatively new advent" as a "result of the Iraq war". In one sentence, she eloquently exemplified her ignorance and the old saying, "Better to be thought of a fool then to open ones mouth and remove all doubt".




One reason no one is never going to see both sides of "the gun argument" working together, nor even a true "national discussion" is because of the language and positioning of the anti-gun crowd. By their very choice of words, and actions, they immediately put gun owners on the defensive and as result permanently remove the people most knowledgeable about the subject from the conversation. What you end up with is idiots that think a barrel shroud is Or more recently, (the guy famed for his letter to Fienstien), the Chicago tribune thinks the front sling swivel of an AR-15 is for mounting a grenade launcher or bayonet. Seriously? I'll just toss this tidbit about out while I'm at it.

In my opinion, this is not just about guns. It's about the constant and steady erosion of our civil liberties. We're already at the point where:
- legislature exists that is (poorly) worded in such a way where it is conceivable for the government to haul US citizens away and detain them indefinitely without due process.. (Patriot act and NDAA)
- We have politicians who seem to think that the contents of the Bill of Rights is subject to their interpretation.

Now their chipping at the Second Amendment. If successful there, what's next? Eventually the second amendment will disappear entirely. At which point there is not a doubt in my mind that the 4th Amendment would be subject to "interpretation" next. The only thing I wonder is how long would it take to get to that point. After the 4th, what would be next? Who knows, but if our politicians were to be left unchecked, it's not a question of if our government turns completely tyrannical, but when. I doubt this turn to complete tyranny ( nor any justification to move from the ballot box to the cartridge box) will happen in our lifetimes; however it will be our descendants and future generations who will bear the burden and the price if we don't stop the erosion of our civil liberties in the here and now.

Taking the long view, this isn't about guns, its much larger then that.

This ^

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by MH

Not that it matters but what is it then?
Ok....it is not like call of duty i agree.

The more kind term is "Modern Sporting Rifle". This is after all a war of words is it not?

Now, by military definition, a rifle has to meet three criteria in order to be classified as an assault rifle. Those are:
1.) Fires an intermediate cartridge.
2.) Uses a removable box magazine.
3.) Is selective fire. (Not found on a civilian AR-15)

What is selective fire you may ask? Here's a BIG hint:


Currently, Assault rifles (and any other weapon capable of automatic fire) are covered by the National Firearms Act. They are incredibly expensive (because they don't exactly grow on trees), and you have to have a Class 3 Federal Firearms License in order to posses them. Most people will never see an assault rifle, let alone own one.

[MH]

On aother hand i personally do not think that naming an rifle magazine a clip or other way around makes person irevelant in discusing gun rights.
There is a lot of bullocks from so called gun experts/enthusiast as well.. who think that having a knowledge of all body parts and some shooting at range gains them better judgement.

On the second amendment issue you have a lot to talk about.
Question is if this is honest discussion.
I somehow doubt that someone who ownes several assault rifles can do it honestly although he might be so called an responsible owner.

[geetrue]

Crazy people are causing the problems and the guns are making people crazy ...

crazy with power

power over another persons life to end it or to obtain the proper respect
for the crazy person carrying it or brandishing it.

there is no answer ... look at all of the other problems
crazy people cause from drunk driving to murder to years of increasing insanity in our growing population.

just look at the news ... the media makes money off reporting
what crazy people do.

Your not going to run out of crazy people for the news to report, show off, and shock us with.

yet you can't blame the news media and get away with it

just blame the crazy people and leave the rest of us alone wait you can't do that can you

what we need here is a national sanity testing center ...

What is sanity testing? - Yahoo! Answers


Mar 02, 2007 · Best Answer: (m) A sanity test or sanity check is a basic test to quickly evaluate the validity of a claim

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by MH

On aother hand i personally do not think that naming an rifle magazine a clip or other way around makes person irevelant in discusing gun rights.
There is a lot of bullocks from so called gun experts/enthusiast as well.. who think that having a knowledge of all body parts and some shooting at range gains them better judgement.

On the second amendment issue you have a lot to talk about.
Question is if this is honest discussion.
I somehow doubt that someone who ownes several assault rifles can do it honestly although he might be so called an responsible owner.

And by this post you show that the language does matter. You've bought into the non-military definition of an assault rifle, or assault weapon as it is now. As long as any weapon can be reclassified as an assault weapon it can be banned.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by MH

On aother hand i personally do not think that naming an rifle magazine a clip or other way around makes person irevelant in discusing gun rights.

Calling a magazine a clip shows two things to the person on the otherside of the argument

1.) You've probably read a lot of disinformation. As the term "clip" is used mainly by the media.
2.) Your unfamiliar with the subject at hand, or at best have just a passing knowledge.

There is a lot of bullocks from so called gun experts/enthusiast as well.. who think that having a knowledge of all body parts and some shooting at range gains them better judgement.

Well, your either familiar with the subject at hand, or your not. Offhand id say someone who handles and uses firearms on a regular basis, probably has more of a leg to stand on then someone who does not. There's a lot more to owning, handling, and using firearms, then simple "gun anatomy".

On the second amendment issue you have a lot to talk about.

I have to admit, it's been near and dear to me for the last 4 months. In fact I have been more politically active then i have in these last 4 months then I have in my entire life. As I've said before, i don't see this as just a gun issue. It's much larger then that. Guns and the second amendment is just one piece of the overall picture. In other words, on the subject of the erosion of our civil liberties; I just happen to have chosen to draw my metaphorical "line in the sand " here.

Question is if this is honest discussion.

I've already stated what I believe, and what i know to be fact.

I somehow doubt that someone who ownes several assault rifles can do it honestly although he might be so called an responsible owner.

I don't own any assault rifles, though I do have one rifle that looks like one. Folks in the gun community tend to call it a "Modern Sporting Rifle". I think this is for three reasons. One, they don't fit the textbook definition of an assault rifle, two it strips away the "evil" label the media bestowed upon it, and three they are genuinly used in sporting competitions. One of which is called "3-gun".

Here's a link:
The Exciting Sport of 3-Gun Shooting

Now, i do acknowledge that "Modern sporting rifle" (or MSR's for short) is about as grotesque in it's political intent as is "Assault weapon". It's not a term I use, I prefer to call them what they are, which is, "AR-15's".

[Wolferz]

Is it all being pushed toward Inter arma enim silent leges ?

A little something first pushed by Lincoln.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

And by this post you show that the language does matter. You've bought into the non-military definition of an assault rifle, or assault weapon as it is now. As long as any weapon can be reclassified as an assault weapon it can be banned.

Yes i have bought to it because i had been caring guns and training with guns for a quite while...
Hmmm..... maybe some should be redefined because your current situation is ridiculous... to me.
Or maybe some others laws should be tightened like who may own what guns and why.

[Buddahaid]

More on the language issue. Take notice next time there is a reported shooting at what language is used in the reporting. If it is not an "assault rifle", it either isn't mentioned what gun was used, or it is mentioned later in follow up as in the two police officers who were murdered in Santa Cruz a few weeks ago. That was a Colt .45 M1911 type so it didn't make news.

Then we have police officers having their weapons stolen from their cars, or residences. One was stolen out of a car in SF recently and the gun was an AR-15 which was described as a semi-auto rifle. Why not an assault rifle? Was it because it wasn't used in a high profile shooting crime?

[MH]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Then we have police officers having their weapons stolen from their cars, or residences. One was stolen out of a car in SF recently and the gun was an AR-15 which was described as a semi-auto rifle. Why not an assault rifle? Was it because it wasn't used in a high profile shooting crime?

Don"t know...maybe by chance or maybe not...but someone should be kicked hardly for leaving guns in a car.
I wonder how many responsible users like that there are within all the millions.
Then you also complain that only bad guys may have guns.
Is leaving gun in a car criminal offence?

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by MH

Don"t know...maybe by chance or maybe not...but someone should be kicked hardly for leaving guns in a car.
I wonder how many responsible users like that there are within all the millions.
Then you also complain that only bad guys may have guns.
Is leaving gun in a car criminal offence?

It was locked in the trunk of an unmarked police car. There seems to be a trend developing along these lines. The policeman's residence that was burgled involved poisoning his lab and police dog. When he took his lab to the vet the thieves stepped in.

[Ducimus]

Hell, lets bring this subject full freaking circle:

Lupica: Morbid find suggests murder-obsessed gunman Adam Lanza plotted Newtown, Conn.'s Sandy Hook massacre for years

Law enforcement reportedly discovers a sickeningly thorough 7-foot-long, 4-foot-wide spreadsheet with names, body counts and weapons from previous mass murders and even attempted killings. 'It sounded like a doctoral thesis, that was the quality of the research,' an anonymous law enforcement veteran said

As an aside, my Father was very careful when it came time to teach me about, and introduce me to guns. He started me with a BB gun. When i showed maturity with that for a lengthy period of time, he graduated me up to my first gun, which was a single shot, 20 gauge break action shotgun. The object lesson I take from the mother of the shooter is, just because they're your precious snowflake, doesn't mean they're OK in the head. I will take similar steps my father took when I raise my own kid. If they aren't mature enough, they're not getting anywhere near ANY gun. Not even a BB gun. heh, let alone some video games.

Wife and I are planning on having a kid or two in the near future, and I made up my mind well before sandy hook, that they will not be playing any games that I have not approved of. As a gamer myself, I know what's in some of those games and they are not for young minds.

[Platapus]

First of all, there is no such thing as the "Assault Weapon Ban of 2013", there is only a draft being considered.

Second, like General Topics, there are few limitations on what any congress critter can submit for a law. Most bill submissions do not even get past committee and mostly serve only a political statements.

Third, this particular bill has been submitted to and reported by committee but there is no expectation that it will pass. Govtrack.us estimates that it has a 19% chance of passing

Fourth, the identical bill in the house has not even been submitted by committee and Govtrack.us estimates a 2% chance of passing.



Perhaps we should wait until at least one version of this bill gets out of committee before getting spun up.