[TEC] Realistic Night Surface Attacks

[Bubblehead1980]

For some fun am trying to get into the ATO side of SH 4 and give U boats a try for first time in a long time.


Some or many may know I recently released a major update to TMO 2.5, adding (among many other things) the ability to conduct realistic/historically accurate night surface attacks in SH 4. Can actually get inside a convoy and attack from within in proper conditions, and use of proper tactics.

This involved a lot of tweaking and testing of things but it really does add a whole new element to SH 4 that has been missing for a long, long time. Bloody exciting actually. With that behind me, should not take as long on this go around.


I would like to bring this element into the ATO side of S H 4, have the ability to to get inside the Allied convoys as some U boats did. Question is, has anyone done this yet? I have not heard of this , but making sure.


My knowledge base of the ATO submarine war is not as extensive as PTO but working on that as for a change, would not mind giving it a go, if can bring the night surface attacks to life as did in the PTO.

If I do it. Is Operation Monsun by Lurker still the main mod for ATO in SH 4?

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

For some fun am trying to get into the ATO side of SH 4 and give U boats a try for first time in a long time.


Some or many may know I recently released a major update to TMO 2.5, adding (among many other things) the ability to conduct realistic/historically accurate night surface attacks in SH 4. Can actually get inside a convoy and attack from within in proper conditions, and use of proper tactics.

This involved a lot of tweaking and testing of things but it really does add a whole new element to SH 4 that has been missing for a long, long time. Bloody exciting actually. With that behind me, should not take as long on this go around.


I would like to bring this element into the ATO side of S H 4, have the ability to to get inside the Allied convoys as some U boats did. Question is, has anyone done this yet? I have not heard of this , but making sure.


My knowledge base of the ATO submarine war is not as extensive as PTO but working on that as for a change, would not mind giving it a go, if can bring the night surface attacks to life as did in the PTO.

If I do it. Is Operation Monsun by Lurker still the main mod for ATO in SH 4?

The original O. M. by lurker, is the basis... yeah... but... this has been expanded on & eclipsed, by O.M.: Dark waters... (which, last I know of... still had some... growth issues, & was decided by Fifi, to step away from... as to their return to work on it more... is not clear... it may happen, it may not.)

Then there is KSD: II, original works by Alex ??? (last name, slips My mem cogs, right now... Nov something... No offence, Alex... no slight intended... will edit to properly give credit, where cred's due... many thanx to you & the team, for your hard work on KSD: II )
This set, is geared more towards running wolfpacks, aka multi player base set up.

Niume, on the other hand... has taken (along with a bit of a hand from vickers03... I believe, iirc & any others, that I am NOT aware of... ) & worked on eng. transiting KSD: II into KDS: II: Ace edition... eng. version.

If any work were to be looked at to make surface night attacks, feasible... I believe it would likely be in conjunction with that mod set... to be completely frank about it... Bublehead1980...

1 thing I recall of, was with wolfpacks, they would wait for what was considered.. favorable conditions to be met to launch a attack... darkness, would be 1 of those... along with some bad weather... definitely NOT a full on Hurricane or Typhoon... choppy enough to make sound gear iffy for the enemy to try & locate them being submerged... cloudy, so as to make use of air cover, a no go for the enemy... were that available depending on the location of a wolf pack attack... barring CV's, that is...

That set, would be the 1 to focus on...



M. M.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

The original O. M. by lurker, is the basis... yeah... but... this has been expanded on & eclipsed, by O.M.: Dark waters... (which, last I know of... still had some... growth issues, & was decided by Fifi, to step away from... as to their return to work on it more... is not clear... it may happen, it may not.)

Then there is KSD: II, original works by Alex ??? (last name, slips My mem cogs, right now... Nov something... No offence, Alex... no slight intended... will edit to properly give credit, where cred's due... many thanx to you & the team, for your hard work on KSD: II )
This set, is geared more towards running wolfpacks, aka multi player base set up.

Niume, on the other hand... has taken (along with a bit of a hand from vickers03... I believe, iirc & any others, that I am NOT aware of... ) & worked on eng. transiting KSD: II into KDS: II: Ace edition... eng. version.

If any work were to be looked at to make surface night attacks, feasible... I believe it would likely be in conjunction with that mod set... to be completely frank about it... Bublehead1980...

1 thing I recall of, was with wolfpacks, they would wait for what was considered.. favorable conditions to be met to launch a attack... darkness, would be 1 of those... along with some bad weather... definitely NOT a full on Hurricane or Typhoon... choppy enough to make sound gear iffy for the enemy to try & locate them being submerged... cloudy, so as to make use of air cover, a no go for the enemy... were that available depending on the location of a wolf pack attack... barring CV's, that is...

That set, would be the 1 to focus on...



M. M.

Thanks, a lot to be considered and learned on my end. I thought about SH 3 and I have copy of SH 5 I have barely every played lol maybe someday. I was just so annoyed with it the stock version, how gamey it was I lost interest and PTO has always been more my domain. However, with properly instituted night surface attacks, can see a lot of intense and interesting patrols in SH 4 ATO mods. I played OM a while back and loved it, other than of course could not do surface attacks without getting decimated lol.

How is your S boat career going? Ah wait, want to keep it on topic here. I will write you on other thread.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Thanks, a lot to be considered and learned on my end. I thought about SH 3 and I have copy of SH 5 I have barely every played lol maybe someday. I was just so annoyed with it the stock version, how gamey it was I lost interest and PTO has always been more my domain. However, with properly instituted night surface attacks, can see a lot of intense and interesting patrols in SH 4 ATO mods. I played OM a while back and loved it, other than of course could not do surface attacks without getting decimated lol.

How is your S boat career going? Ah wait, want to keep it on topic here. I will write you on other thread.

Posted a reply, concerning the S class career, on the main thread for that... & welcome about the info that I know of, concerning the U boat arm of SH4.

1 thing I love with KSD II, is the look of the lightning... looks nice... as does the dark night look & feel... just a wee bit darker than I feel it needs to be. Will make note of that & post on it in the main thread for KSD II: Ace...

Down side to the lightning... clear night in the time frame I'm in... just before the start of WW2... &... got lightning walking about with flash effects reflecting off clouds... but, there ain't any... weird, to say the least...

No changes to the mod set's eviro's... so no idea why that would occur... as I said, will be posting about that in the main thread for KSD II: Ace's...



M. M.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

Posted a reply, concerning the S class career, on the main thread for that... & welcome about the info that I know of, concerning the U boat arm of SH4.

1 thing I love with KSD II, is the look of the lightning... looks nice... as does the dark night look & feel... just a wee bit darker than I feel it needs to be. Will make note of that & post on it in the main thread for KSD II: Ace...

Down side to the lightning... clear night in the time frame I'm in... just before the start of WW2... &... got lightning walking about with flash effects reflecting off clouds... but, there ain't any... weird, to say the least...

No changes to the mod set's eviro's... so no idea why that would occur... as I said, will be posting about that in the main thread for KSD II: Ace's...



M. M.

With the darker nights, are surface attacks possible now? At realistic ranges, can get inside convoy or ? What is the radar like

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

With the darker nights, are surface attacks possible now? At realistic ranges, can get inside convoy or ? What is the radar like

Can't say, as of yet... haven't relly gotten deep into the war yet.

Do know that after... mhmm... think is like, late '41, maybe early '42.. is when the 1st happy times for the U boats, comes to a close. They (U boat arm) had a bit of a resurgence of the early happy time of sinking shipping, but.. that, didn't last long... maybe... 6 months... then after that, they really started getting hammered & suffered major losses until the end of the war... as I recall.

Rough 3 out of 4 U boats... 30K of 40K of crews, decimated. If I recall the stats right.



M. M.

[Kapitän]

I just did a night surface attack on KSDII, Oct.42, wind 5m/s, clear night, half moon:


Fully surfaced, I was detected first at ~2500m and had to dive due to gunfire (no hits).


At the second run fully surfaced, we were deteced at ~3000m and had to dive again (no hits).


At the third run, the boat was decks awash (set depth 8m), and was not detected at distance of ~3300m.


We fully surfaced at ~3000m and were only noticed, once we engaged with the deck gun.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Kapitän

I just did a night surface attack on KSDII, Oct.42, wind 5m/s, clear night, half moon:


Fully surfaced, I was detected first at ~2500m and had to dive due to gunfire (no hits).


At the second run fully surfaced, we were deteced at ~3000m and had to dive again (no hits).


At the third run, the boat was decks awash (set depth 8m), and was not detected at distance of ~3300m.


We fully surfaced at ~3000m and were only noticed, once we engaged with the deck gun.

Nice! Thanks for sharing In Dark Waters I have made realistic night surface attacks possible. This includes getting inside the convoy and attacking from within, on the surface. Flooding down to decks awash helps as well, depending on sea state. In Heavy seas it actually increases visibility due to spray it kicks up. I applied a darker nights mod, since so much is dependent on light factor. I have more testing to do to perfect it but thus far, great results. I did a write up on some tests in the Dark Waters thread if interested.


I plan to address KSD next, if needs it. Want to make it possible to get inside convoy under right conditions, as have in DW..

[Kapitän]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Nice! Thanks for sharing In Dark Waters I have made realistic night surface attacks possible. This includes getting inside the convoy and attacking from within, on the surface. Flooding down to decks awash helps as well, depending on sea state. In Heavy seas it actually increases visibility due to spray it kicks up. I applied a darker nights mod, since so much is dependent on light factor. I have more testing to do to perfect it but thus far, great results. I did a write up on some tests in the Dark Waters thread if interested.


I plan to address KSD next, if needs it. Want to make it possible to get inside convoy under right conditions, as have in DW..

Sounds interesting. Yes, surface attacks from within the convoy were a specialty of U 99, during the "Happy Days" in 1940 ...


Looking forward to it