M1 Tank Platoon II

[Polak2]

IMHO the value of M1TP2 is in easy and pleasurable replayability as well in never really fully explored potential of being a great sandbox for the custom mission which can reflect real-life conditions and doctrines.

That is only possible if the users have enough patience to learn this simulation inside out and be able to access the ability and skills to make custom missions from the simple text file.

The same applies to Gunship!

Both of those titles were simply pushed out of the house prematurely and unfinished due to stiff competition and greedy market/financial reasons. They have never been given a chance to shine.

[RetroGamer]

Originally Posted by Polak2

IMHO the value of M1TP2 is in easy and pleasurable replayability as well in never really fully explored potential of being a great sandbox for the custom mission which can reflect real-life conditions and doctrines.

That is only possible if the users have enough patience to learn this simulation inside out and be able to access the ability and skills to make custom missions from the simple text file.

The same applies to Gunship!

Both of those titles were simply pushed out of the house prematurely and unfinished due to stiff competition and greedy market/financial reasons. They have never been given a chance to shine.

I’ve been experimenting with various different hardware and software and the performance of M1TP2 and need to play a bit more. Oh - correct me if I’m wrong but the game plays fine on Windows XP, no? I found minor graphics anomalies at some of the menu screens and the exit button is missing….that’s it. Other than needing to use alt+f4 to exit, it runs great! FYI the game looks just as good under D3D as it does in Glide. I’m not really sure I’d be able to differentiate.

As far as gameplay goes, really it seems the key is getting your forces in a good position. I’ve been breaking the rules of “shoot, move, and communicate” in order to win the battles.

Unfortunately, my gunnery skills just don’t cut it so the best way for me to take out enemy tanks is to get on the high ground, STOP, then take ‘‘em out one at a time FAST just like the static gunnery training range. This is doctrinally incorrect.

The M1A2 tank should be able to shoot on the move and destroy moving enemy targets on the move. I’m just not effective that way, however. Maybe with enough practice….

In other similar armor simulations, I have a “battle drill” procedure in place once enemy armor is spotted:

1. Turn the hull to align with the target.
2. Pop smoke.
3. Fire, then back up over the top of a hill, if possible.
4. Call arty and air support on the target.
5. Wait for the reload, pull forward and reengage, then back up to cover, reload, repeat.

This procedure doesn’t work in M1TP2 because the align hull to gun command doesn’t always work. (maybe I just need to work with it a little more..l) Usually, arty and air have already been requested and are unavailable. I haven’t tried popping smoke. If the thermals can’t see thru it, it’s almost useless….need to try this, as I recall, you can’t see thru smoke in the game. Backing up behind a hill takes so long, you’re gonna get hit.

I recall in the original, the best tactic was to snipe enemy targets one at a time. That’s not what the FMs say to do but it works!!

I’m unclear on how to make custom missions. Better maps, would definitely help.

It’s just simple fun of lining everything up properly, then decimating those BRDMS, BMPs, and T-72s! I’m trying to get a game pad to work with this game but need to figure how to invert the Y axes.

Yeah - the entire world went over to either Steel Beasts or World of Tanks and abandoned M1TP2, iM1A2, and T-72!!! Oh well, more for me, lol!!!

I just can’t get into Steel Beasts - I don’t know why. Probably because there’s no campaign and it’s not actually a “game”.

World of Tanks - well, I love the graphics and all but that’s a first person shooter in a fantasy armor world. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, it’s just totally fictitious.

[Polak2]

Many interesting questions and observations. Meanwhile here is the list of the old graphic cards recommended by the game authors themselves:

=====================
Cards Supported in Direct 3D:
=====================
Cards Supported in Direct3D:
Matrox Millennium
Intel 740
ATI 3D Rage PCI 2 Mb
ATI 3D Xpression PCI 2 MB
Matrox Millennium II AGP 4MB
Hercules Stingray 128/3D PCI 6 MB
Intense 3D VooDoo
Stealth 64 Animation 3200 PCI 2 MB
S3 Trio 64 v2
S3 Trio 64V+ PCI 1 MB
ATI 3D Rage II 1MB
S3 Trio 64V2-GX PCI 1 MB
Matrox Mystique PCI 2 MB
ATI All-In-Wonder Pro
9FX Reality 332 PCI 2 MB
Embedded S3 Trio64V2 1 MB
ATI 264-VT2 1MB Embedded
S3 Trio 64V+ PCI 1 MB
STB Nitro PCI 4 MB
STB Nitro PCI 4 MB
S3 Virge 64 2MB PCI
Trident Image 975 4MB
ATI 3D Rage PCI 2MB
Matrox Millennium PCI 2 MB
Graphite Terminator PCI 4MB VRAM
STB Velocity 3D 4 MB W/ Real Vision Flash 3D
ATI 3D Rage PCI 2 MB
S3 Trio64V2/DX 2 MB
Diamond Monster 3D PCI 4 MB
ATI 3D Rage II 2 MB
Trident TVGA9680 PCI 1 MB
ATI Mach64 PCI 1MB
Stealth 3D 2000 PCI 4 MB
Cyrix Xpress GRAPHICS
ATI Rage Pro 4MB AGP 2X/
Canopus Pure 3D 6MB PCI
Diamond GL 1000 w/ArcadeFX 3D 3Dfx


The following cards should use the Glide settings.
ATI 3D Rage II+ PCI 2MB
Diamond Viper V330 4MB AGP w/ Monster 3DII Voodoo2 8MB

[RetroGamer]

Originally Posted by Polak2

Many interesting questions and observations. Meanwhile here is the list of the old graphic cards recommended by the game authors themselves:

Thanks for that info on old cards. I've got an Intel 740 AGP card coming next week so I'm going to try D3D out under Windows 98. I think that'll be the end of my M1TP2 hardware research. I need to work on gameplay.



This evening I played a few missions in D3D with M1TP2 V1.2 on a PC running Windows XP. When I finished, I plugged the Aptiva with 3dfx carids in SLI and played a few missions in glide on that PC.



There is no difference whatsoever. None. FWIW a Geforce3 200ti will run the game perfectly under D3D in Windows XP.


I tried some "battle drills", too. Hit backspace to pop smoke, turn on the thermals to engage and....your freaking blind. You can't see them and they probably can't see you. The "Align Hull to Gun" command - I was right, that doesn't work in the heat of battle.


I didn't know this before but it looks like M1TP2 will run on just about any PC with a 3d card running Windows XP. The missing "Quit" button is the only quirk. That's nothing! There's no difference between D3D and glide. I wish I'd known that earlier. I think that's what made me not want to bother with M1TP2....I thought one needed a 3dfx glide card and thought the game needed Win98 to run properly. Not really the case....


Still working on Fraps. Still playing. I have NOT defeated all campaigns on "Normal" or "Hard" yet. I did it on "Easy" mode, though.

[Polak2]

About the graphics and making all arrangements to make them compatible with M1TP2 it is my opinion that this may only benefit D3D which is currently unplayable on my win10 64bit and Nvidia GTX card. So therefore I need to run on Glide. And that is basically it.

Here is what is interesting to me atm. Gameplay and how they represented various battledrills as this is what I am learning from the M1TP2 manual and then hearing from the other sources on the internet is the most fundamental component of successful tactics on the tank platoon level. The center of my interest is to try to find and extract the information according to which the battles and battledrills are played out at NTC.

As I have mentioned earlier that most of the battles in M1TP2 are scripted from the rather very simple and totally readable in English text file describing all of the global conditions, spawning information, formations and tasks, and goals for the scenario. I see those files in the Battles subfolder and can read and play and modify them easily. They are for Armor, Player, NATO and Gulf single battle and tutorial scenarios.

However, this is not how the NTC and eventually perhaps campaigns are scripted or generated. They appear to be randomly generated and not scripted although it is my belief that at some point that format of the typical scripted scenario is produced (possibly in memory) and the AI is taking the cue from there. If that could be apprehended and analyzed then not only those Battledrills could be played out (and that is another possibly interesting possibility) on the battlefield and observed and modified to understand fully what is the best gameplay options for Blue as well Red side in this game.

Other things may transpire from that as well.

[Polak2]

If that could be apprehended and analyzed then not only those Battledrills could be played out (and that is another possibly interesting possibility) on the battlefield and observed and modified to understand fully what is the best gameplay options for Blue as well Red side in this game.

Fortunately, it did not take long to find a good solution to this how-to extract random NTC mission for further study and analysis.

The solution is to SAVE THE BATTLE right after it starts in the Briefing Map.

The result is a new text file of the saved scenario located in the Player folder and called "battle0.txt". You can rename it to the name of what that mission is in my case it is Movement 2Contact1 or M2C1 as I called it when saving it.

This gives very good learning and test material to play and replay it using maybe different tactics.

[RetroGamer]

Originally Posted by Polak2

...most of the battles in M1TP2 are scripted from the rather very simple and totally readable in English text file describing all of the global conditions, spawning information, formations and tasks, and goals for the scenario. I see those files in the Battles subfolder and can read and play and modify them easily.

That's very interesting. If I'm following you, start one of the battles, immediately save, then go into the Battles subfolder and you can modify it and change the name, conditions, tasks, etc...wow!"


I've been playing the game and trying to figure out which tactics work best. It's a trial and error process. Here's what I've found out so far:


If you've got another platoon of M1A2s, don't separate - keep them next to you on a parallel course so you can engage the enemy in force. That's worked a few times. We've wiped out some enemy tank companies with direct fire with just me and my other platoon.


If you've got another platoon of M2A3s, either keep them with you, but lagging way behind, or send them to some high ground far away. Maybe they can engage long range with the TOWs and not get themselves killed.


If you've got a platoon of M113s, send them for the hills far away so they don't get killed. You can bring them up if you're platoon lost its' mobility.


What gets you killed:


1. Having fun blowing away all those BMPs and enemy tanks and not realizing you're outnumbered. They get a lucky shot and you're platoon is destroyed within 10 seconds.



Oh - back to hardware and software....I can't find a Fraps version that works on Windows 98. It says in the readme of 1.9 that it needs XP to work. I've gotten it to work in XP for the frame counter but can't get any movies. Still working on it. I need a more current version.

[Polak2]

If you've got another platoon of M1A2s, don't separate - keep them next to you on a parallel course so you can engage the enemy in force. That's worked a few times. We've wiped out some enemy tank companies with direct fire with just me and my other platoon.

Let us not forget our little flying friends. They can give a helping hand and they are controllable too. This is the bonus of having a random learning scenario being "frozen" at the start so you can modify things to see what works or whatnot. And you can see the battlefield from a new higher viewing point.

[Polak2]

I was wondering what is new in our topic in this New 2022 year? I hope we still M1TP2 tanking ahead! There are some new developments in M1TP2 terrain modding subject here: https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...in#Post4588387

Everyone is invited to make M1TP2 better if possible!

[Skybird]

We admire your enthusiasm!


It certainly was a good game in its time.

[Wolfcat]

@Polak2 Hi I am new to this thread. Could you tell me how to use Voodoo wrapper to get better graphics? I am currently using DXWnd to get it to work but the graphics not nearly as good as yours.

[Polak2]

@Wolfcat
Try this profile for DXWnd:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ef89tzw70f...M1TP2.dxw?dl=0
I use dgVoodo2 wrapper in Glide mode in the game.

lmk...

[RetroGamer]

Originally Posted by Polak2

I was wondering what is new in our topic in this New 2022 year? I hope we still M1TP2 tanking ahead! There are some new developments in M1TP2 terrain modding subject here: https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...in#Post4588387

Everyone is invited to make M1TP2 better if possible!

I built a retro PC right after the New Year specifically for playing tank sims, especially M1TP2. It’s a Windows XP computer, 3 GHZ processor, intel board, 2 GB RAM, onboard Intel graphics (for now). I intend to eventually get the best graphics card I can find with XP drivers.

As is, I can play:

1. The 3 Armored Fist games (AF1, AF2 under DOXBox, AF3 under XP)
2. M1TP2 - v1.2, looks great under D3D mode. Sometimes the colors are off after using thermal sights but the game plays very well and never crashes.
3. Steel Beasts 1 - I only play the tank range from time to time.
4. iM1A2 - I only play the Instant Action scenario.
5. Mechwarrior4 - Not a tank sim but close - graphics are off the scale beautiful!
6. T-72 Balkans on Fire - looks good, low frame rate due to onboard graphics.

Games that won’t run until I install a better graphics card:

1. Battlefield 2
2. T34 vs Tiger
3. Steel Fury
4. Steel Armor: Blaze of War

All that being said - M1TP2 is the main game I play. Here’s what I’ve learned:

1. At the mission start, get everybody to the high ground.
2. Keep your forces together. LAVs and Hummer platoons and sections die without you.
3. Every mission is an attack mission. Wedge, full speed. Upon contact, use Battle drill to assault line formation.

4. While doctrinally incorrect, stopping the M1 and engaging g targets at maximum effective range with sabot rounds works. Sabot has a longer range. Just stop and snipe each BMP because if you’re moving, you’ll miss.

I’m still playing the heck out of all the campaigns.

M1TP2 is still awesome!

[Polak2]

@RetroGamer ...and others,
I am glad you are still with M1P2.

About best tactics in this I cannot say yet too much, however, IMHO there are a few problems about this game that prevent implementation of closer to RL tactics and doctrines.

a. size of the battlefield
b. very awkward and clumsy representation of trees and forests
c. inability to split tank platoon into 2 sections
d. more refined and accurate heightmap allowing use terrain for cover

Some, if not all, of those deficiencies, could be possibly corrected with deeper research of files and modding. It needs some time and perhaps broader attention and support would be helpful.

So for now let us just enjoy this visualization of Movement to Contact with VBS2:

[RetroGamer]

Hey, Polak2!

This is somewhat M1TP2 related - I bought Gunship! A few weeks ago and yes, it’s more advanced graphically than M1TP2.

I’m starting the training missions but confound it!….I immediately ran into a snafu. There’s no way for me to navigate to the next waypoint.

Apparently one needs a patch.

If there’s a Gunship thread on this, point me in the right direction and I’ll meet you there.

I really want to sink my teeth into Gunship! It’s another high quality sim that I didn’t give a chance back when it came out. Thanks.