I think this was a first (for me) for crewman to do this. anyone else?

[Bubblehead1980]

August 1943
USS Tambor SS 198

Dunkers Derp Area

TMO 2.5 w custom mods


August 22-23 engaged in three attacks one two convoys...one attack on Southbound convoy (likely to Truk) and two on a northbound convoy. First on 22 August was night surface attack, sunk 11808 ton tanker, forced to dive when a previously unseen chidori put spotlight on me, firing (missed) preventing a surface escape. A 6 1/2 hour depth charge attack followed with little break. Tambor was pushed to 500 feet.


Followed up attack that afternoon after an end around sunk a 7000 ton SEIA MARU. The DC attack was just an determined, assumed to be the Chidori and the Type A (external camera off, basing off previous observations) .

Pushed to 530 feet to try and get under their sonar and charges, it seemed we had done just that but during what first seemed like a run in that was off course, escort laid a pattern, and two close charges shook the boat and caused heavy damage.

Major damage was flooding in engine rooms, trim pump and hydraulic pump damaged, aft battery damage, and assorted minor damage throughout boat. DC party went into action and stopped the flooding, but the compartment had a lot of water in it, would take time to pump out. Trim pump damaged, boat was difficult to control between this and the flooding. Tambor at one point was at 571 feet, likely near crush depth for this class of boat, it was a fight to keep it from sinking deeper. Plus battery, damaged and having to be used at high speeds to compensate for flooding, was down to 41 percent. Meanwhile attacks continued.



Eventually, water was pumped out and after 9 hours under attack, escorts went away. We surfaced after 11 hours under. Checking on crew status, noticed a lot of minor injuries in engine rooms and morale status of two crewman as "shaken". I moved them to the crew berthing and replaced.


On 23 August found a northbound convoy and attacked, sinking a large ship. A vicious counter attack followed...no serious damage as before but boat was under for 6 1/2 hours with not let up (I stayed up way too late trying to get to safe point could leave it lol) . Finally shaking the escorts an surfacing that night.

I noticed while one crewman healed and went from shaken to normal, the other had now progressed to "manic" and his health went to 50 percent. I left him in the crew berthing. I left the sim running with boat at 350 feet for a day of rest" and went to bed. Jumped on a few minutes ago, crewman health was at 3 percent and listed as "manic" and a few minutes ago, his health went to 0, he passed.


In all the years of SH 4 never had this happen, sure I would have noticed. Crewman slowly died in that manner. Seen morale as manic one other time, just wondering if anyone has seen this or noticed before?

Also shocked as it was an experienced Petty Officer 1st Class, been on boat for 6 out of ten patrols. Interesting dynamic to the sim.

[Arlo]

First I've ever heard of. He went crazy then died. Of course, I think he had other wounds, as well. Then I gotta wonder. Burial at sea or do you haul him around for the rest of the patrol and then take him back to base?

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

August 1943
I noticed while one crewman healed and went from shaken to normal, the other had now progressed to "manic" and his health went to 50 percent. I left him in the crew berthing. I left the sim running with boat at 350 feet for a day of rest" and went to bed. Jumped on a few minutes ago, crewman health was at 3 percent and listed as "manic" and a few minutes ago, his health went to 0, he passed.


In all the years of SH 4 never had this happen, sure I would have noticed. Crewman slowly died in that manner. Seen morale as manic one other time, just wondering if anyone has seen this or noticed before?

Also shocked as it was an experienced Petty Officer 1st Class, been on boat for 6 out of ten patrols. Interesting dynamic to the sim.

you stated that your boat was at an extreme depth and you hit the sack for the night.
when you returned several hours later what was the oxygen level in the boat?
more than likely, it was not very good and that probably contributed to the decreasing health of the injured crewman.

as for the "morale", i believe that is a vestige setting from SH3 and like Intelligence and awards and a few other variables, it does not play an active part in SH4.

a crewman's rank is not a factor in his ability to survive. it is the extent of his injuries and the O2 level that caused his death. a flooded/flooding compartment will also factor into health/death.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Arlo

First I've ever heard of. He went crazy then died. Of course, I think he had other wounds, as well. Then I gotta wonder. Burial at sea or do you haul him around for the rest of the patrol and then take him back to base?

Well, there is no way to do a "burial at sea" so he stays in the crew berthing in the sim until back in port, then remove him from roster. If you put him at one of the stations where crew are rendered in 3d, they collapse on the floor.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

you stated that your boat was at an extreme depth and you hit the sack for the night.
when you returned several hours later what was the oxygen level in the boat?
more than likely, it was not very good and that probably contributed to the decreasing health of the injured crewman.

as for the "morale", i believe that is a vestige setting from SH3 and like Intelligence and awards and a few other variables, it does not play an active part in SH4.

a crewman's rank is not a factor in his ability to survive. it is the extent of his injuries and the O2 level that caused his death. a flooded/flooding compartment will also factor into health/death.

The CO2 level was not high (forget exact number as was not worried) , normal for a 8-12 hour day of submerged patrol. I will clarify, I had managed to surface after slipped away for escorts and been surfaced a while before diving for a "rest day", so after some respite. At dawn ( in the sim) submerged boat to 350, and I went to bed. Came back roughly 11 hours later in real time. Possible the contributed though.

Well I figured his rank and experience would prevent him from breaking down mentally , going to "shaken" and then "manic". Since other times have seen these changes in moral were usually inexperienced seaman.

What caught me was how his initial injuries did not see that bad, like others his health was high, but his morale was shaken, then his health kept declining in aftermath until he died. Morale never changed from manic.

[propbeanie]

I have had similar in TMO, and I laid it to a head injury, or other internal injury that kept the character's health on the decline. We had similar in early renditions of FotRSU, just after the FOTRS conversions, and no amount of moving the characters helped. This is where the Pharmacist's Mate position came back into the FotRSU mod. I forget what CapnScurvy did, but you are supposedly limited to one on your boat. The best way to do it, is to move the injured person into a "crew's rest" position, such as what we call the Watch Crew Berthing in FotRSU, and put the Pharmacist's Mate in there with the injured character. This will usually, but not always help... I had one "fellow" who was injured during a depth charging after roughly a week's time on patrol, and he kept declining over the course of the next week. I finally moved him to the "sick bay" with the Pharmacist's Mate, as above, and continued on patrol for another two weeks. We went back into Fremantle, and while entering the harbor, but not quite close enough for the "End Patrol?" pop-up, and the dude died... Three weeks he was injured, and then dies on me while coming back in... sheesh. - a flagrant violation of direct orders.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I have had similar in TMO, and I laid it to a head injury, or other internal injury that kept the character's health on the decline. We had similar in early renditions of FotRSU, just after the FOTRS conversions, and no amount of moving the characters helped. This is where the Pharmacist's Mate position came back into the FotRSU mod. I forget what CapnScurvy did, but you are supposedly limited to one on your boat. The best way to do it, is to move the injured person into a "crew's rest" position, such as what we call the Watch Crew Berthing in FotRSU, and put the Pharmacist's Mate in there with the injured character. This will usually, but not always help... I had one "fellow" who was injured during a depth charging after roughly a week's time on patrol, and he kept declining over the course of the next week. I finally moved him to the "sick bay" with the Pharmacist's Mate, as above, and continued on patrol for another two weeks. We went back into Fremantle, and while entering the harbor, but not quite close enough for the "End Patrol?" pop-up, and the dude died... Three weeks he was injured, and then dies on me while coming back in... sheesh. - a flagrant violation of direct orders.

Adds an element of realism from my perspective. I'll keep an eye out for a 'pharmacist mate' to become available between patrols. I'm guessing the renown cost would be high (even though all boats had one, if I'm not mistaken - probably indicates 'one hell of a' PM ... like the one that performed an appendectomy at sea).

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Arlo

Adds an element of realism from my perspective. I'll keep an eye out for a 'pharmacist mate' to become available between patrols. I'm guessing the renown cost would be high (even though all boats had one, if I'm not mistaken - probably indicates 'one hell of a' PM ... like the one that performed an appendectomy at sea).

i hate to be a Negative Nancy, Arlo, but you have as much chance of seeing a PM in the available talent pool as a snowball's chance in Houston, in July.
Only the top six ranks (E7-9, O1-3) are eligible for ONE special ability and the selection has 21 specials to choose from.
then there is the chance factor of even getting one. for the CPO's you have a 15% chance and that is when you promote an E6 to Chief. for the officers the chances range from 30% for Ensign to 35% for JG to 100% for an LT.
so....the odds are 1:21 for a Medic multiplied by the chances for each rank: CPO .15 x .0476 = .007% chance of getting a PM.
if you want a PM, wait until you are in port and edit the ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc file, choose a crewman and assign the special ability.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

i hate to be a Negative Nancy, Arlo, but you have as much chance of seeing a PM in the available talent pool as a snowball's chance in Houston, in July.
Only the top six ranks (E7-9, O1-3) are eligible for ONE special ability and the selection has 21 specials to choose from.
then there is the chance factor of even getting one. for the CPO's you have a 15% chance and that is when you promote an E6 to Chief. for the officers the chances range from 30% for Ensign to 35% for JG to 100% for an LT.
so....the odds are 1:21 for a Medic multiplied by the chances for each rank: CPO .15 x .0476 = .007% chance of getting a PM.
if you want a PM, wait until you are in port and edit the ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc file, choose a crewman and assign the special ability.

Same odds for FOTRSU?

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Arlo

Same odds for FOTRSU?

these are from FOTRSU.

[propbeanie]

Now, I might have this backwards, but in FotRSU, the "Medic" in SpecialAbilities is set to:

[SpecialAbility 5]
ID=Ability-Medic
NameDisplayable=Ability-Medic-Name
Description=Ability-Medic-Description
AbilityType= HealSpeed, CrewFatigue
AbilityValue=50, -50
AbylityActsIn= ALL
SkillRequiredLeadership= 0
SkillRequiredMechanical= 0
SkillRequiredElectrics= 0
SkillRequiredGuns= 0
SkillRequiredWatchman= 0

Which I thought that meant "no requirements", other than the Ranks requirement of:

[Rank 7]
ID=CPO
Level=7
TreeType= USNavy
NameDisplayable=Chief Petty Officer
Image=4
3DClothingIDLink= ClothingCPOs
XPRequirement= 3650
LevelUp= Base
MaxQualifications= 1
MaxSpecialAbilities= 1
AvailableQualifications= NULL
AvailableSpecialAbilities= Ability-Master-Engineer, Ability-Sharpshooter, Ability-Torpedo-Specialist, Ability-Torpedo-Expert, Ability-Medic, Ability-Engines-Expert, Ability-Propulsion-Specialist, Ability-Expert-Sonarman, Ability-Expert-Radarman, Ability-Watchman, Ability-Radioman, Ability-Theoretician, Ability-Active-Stalker, Ability-Active-Overcharge, Ability-Active-Riposte, Ability-Active-Bombarde, Ability-Active-Quick-Repair, Ability-Active-Quick-Escape, Ability-Active-Perfect-Pitch, Ability-Active-Medic, Ability-Active-Sensors-Alert
GetSpecialAbilityChance= 0.15
EfficiencyMod= 1.0

Which (again, my understanding) means that you have to have a CPO, and you have a 15% chance each go-round upon returning to base, of a CPO acquiring the "skill". Most of those other skills have the 70% level in one of the "SkillRequired" fields in the SpecialAbilities file. There are generally several CPO in the player's crew at the start, and would usually have a medic after several patrols, since the game's "chance" ("random seed") defaults to giving a player the "hit" before the "no". Now, I could very well be completely wrong in this, but I get a "medic" ("Pharmacist's Mate" in the description) rather often, and the same with the battery re-charge fix (Propulsion Specialist) and Theoretician. These are FotRSU attempts to "fix" some deficiencies. The other speical abilities can indeed be rather difficult to come by, and none of the regular "rates" in the crew are eligible for them. Only CPO and higher (only Rank 7 and higher).

Sorry for derailing the original post, Bubblehead1980 - btw, the "wound" name in the game is either the "Liver wound", or "Sucking chest wound". I'm not certain which one can do the continual decline, but it looks like the player has to ignore the crewman that sustained the wound, or do something else to cause them to die, because it looks like they should heal after 240 hours... apparently (a well-known fact among the available crew pool), I am a bad skipper...

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Now, I might have this backwards, but in FotRSU, the "Medic" in SpecialAbilities is set to:

[SpecialAbility 5]
ID=Ability-Medic
NameDisplayable=Ability-Medic-Name
Description=Ability-Medic-Description
AbilityType= HealSpeed, CrewFatigue
AbilityValue=50, -50
AbylityActsIn= ALL
SkillRequiredLeadership= 0
SkillRequiredMechanical= 0
SkillRequiredElectrics= 0
SkillRequiredGuns= 0
SkillRequiredWatchman= 0

Which I thought that meant "no requirements", other than the Ranks requirement of:

[Rank 7]
ID=CPO
Level=7
TreeType= USNavy
NameDisplayable=Chief Petty Officer
Image=4
3DClothingIDLink= ClothingCPOs
XPRequirement= 3650
LevelUp= Base
MaxQualifications= 1
MaxSpecialAbilities= 1
AvailableQualifications= NULL
AvailableSpecialAbilities= Ability-Master-Engineer, Ability-Sharpshooter, Ability-Torpedo-Specialist, Ability-Torpedo-Expert, Ability-Medic, Ability-Engines-Expert, Ability-Propulsion-Specialist, Ability-Expert-Sonarman, Ability-Expert-Radarman, Ability-Watchman, Ability-Radioman, Ability-Theoretician, Ability-Active-Stalker, Ability-Active-Overcharge, Ability-Active-Riposte, Ability-Active-Bombarde, Ability-Active-Quick-Repair, Ability-Active-Quick-Escape, Ability-Active-Perfect-Pitch, Ability-Active-Medic, Ability-Active-Sensors-Alert
GetSpecialAbilityChance= 0.15
EfficiencyMod= 1.0

Which (again, my understanding) means that you have to have a CPO, and you have a 15% chance each go-round upon returning to base, of a CPO acquiring the "skill". Most of those other skills have the 70% level in one of the "SkillRequired" fields in the SpecialAbilities file. There are generally several CPO in the player's crew at the start, and would usually have a medic after several patrols, since the game's "chance" ("random seed") defaults to giving a player the "hit" before the "no". Now, I could very well be completely wrong in this, but I get a "medic" ("Pharmacist's Mate" in the description) rather often, and the same with the battery re-charge fix (Propulsion Specialist) and Theoretician. These are FotRSU attempts to "fix" some deficiencies. The other special abilities can indeed be rather difficult to come by, and none of the regular "rates" in the crew are eligible for them. Only CPO and higher (only Rank 7 and higher).

Sorry for derailing the original post, Bubblehead1980 - btw, the "wound" name in the game is either the "Liver wound", or "Sucking chest wound". I'm not certain which one can do the continual decline, but it looks like the player has to ignore the crewman that sustained the wound, or do something else to cause them to die, because it looks like they should heal after 240 hours... apparently (a well-known fact among the available crew pool), I am a bad skipper...

No problem. I have seen the liver wound etc in the files before, was wondering if it was something planned to be more in detail but never implemented. Seen a bit of that in the files, as I am sure you have.

Like I said, in this incident was first for me because, the initial physical wound was minor, I mean health went from 100 to 95 or so I believe, it seemed a mental breakdown because of the "shaken" and "manic" moral after some brutal and prolonged depth charging attacks, which the physical health then declined afterward. I have had crewmembers injured in battle surface before where their health declined and they died while most others heal and return to duty.


Far as a pharmacists mate, may look into it since subs did have a PM. I have basically eliminated most special abilities from the sim for my TMO upgrade. I kept the master mechanic and made it where his ability only is active when he is put on with the damage control party. Basically, this offsets the horribly slow repair speed at key moments, such as stopping flooding but also stops the amazing rapid repairs of everything else if remove from the DC party. I don't keep people permanently in the DC party, when needed I pull them from the crew (as it would really happen) . Also kept the "Ahead emergency" ability, so can get extra speed when really need it, alas USS Barb when it attacked Namkwan Harbor in 1945 making 22 knots overloading the engines. Last one kept was the chief for engine rooms who can make the dive happen faster, fleet boats could submerged in 40 seconds or less. I hate having to use the "crash dive" key (very Hollywood) to get under quickly, so the compromise the special ability.


Something I really want to do but has taken back seat while finish other things is change up the crews. Something I hated about the change from V1.4 to V1.5 is how the crews are done. I remember had a large selection of crew and got basically different crew each time start a career. In V1.5 you get nearly the same crew every time start a career. The older boats and S class have different crews than the Gato/Balao/Tambor/Gar/Tench but still still get same guys over and over. Needs some other changes as well.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

No problem. I have seen the liver wound etc in the files before, was wondering if it was something planned to be more in detail but never implemented. Seen a bit of that in the files, as I am sure you have.

those words are just comments from whomever. it is the severity of the injury that you need to be concerned with. THAT will determine what kind of medical skill is required and how long it will take for the crewman to heal. interesting that there is no parameter for medical skill other than the special skill of Medic.

Something I really want to do but has taken back seat while finish other things is change up the crews. Something I hated about the change from V1.4 to V1.5 is how the crews are done. I remember had a large selection of crew and got basically different crew each time start a career. In V1.5 you get nearly the same crew every time start a career. The older boats and S class have different crews than the Gato/Balao/Tambor/Gar/Tench but still still get same guys over and over. Needs some other changes as well.

so, do you like to have the same crew or not? i cannot determine that from your comments. do you want to learn how to dictate your crews or do you know how to do that?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

those words are just comments from whomever. it is the severity of the injury that you need to be concerned with. THAT will determine what kind of medical skill is required and how long it will take for the crewman to heal. interesting that there is no parameter for medical skill other than the special skill of Medic.

Got ya.

so, do you like to have the same crew or not? i cannot determine that from your comments. do you want to learn how to dictate your crews or do you know how to do that?

No, do not like having same crew over and over, would like to learn how to have different crews and have them randomized. I have looked over and played with the crew file some as have edited special abilities (eliminated most) changed the exp required for promotion, changed it so most promotions are not automatic etc.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

No, do not liek having same crew over and over, would like to learn how to have different crews and have them randomized. I have looked over and played with the crew file some as have edited special abilities (eliminated most) changed the exp required for promotion, changed it so most promotions are not automatic etc.

ok, cool, you seem to know what you are doing. carry on.