Other Weapons Mod

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by shipkiller1

You are also assuming the CO had nuclear release authority, which in all actuality he would not until the big missiles are already flying...

When I went to Fire Control 'C' school (1980) and learned how to fix the 'Leveling computer' (used for Subroc) all of the older FT's stated that in no uncertain terms that NO one would launch one of these...

Also, based on the sonar technology of the time (your time frame 1966) you most likely would not detect an SSBN at 30K+ and even if you did, you could not resolve the range down to where the CEP was sufficient to destroy the contact. At that range, you definitely would not know if he was in a launch cycle.

When President Bush pulled all the tactical nukes out of the fleet, we were all doing hand stands... thank god they were going away... Not because of what they represented but for all the crazy rules/requirements of just having them on board. They were a nightmare.

No doubt they were, but they were still carried very frequently from 1965 until the late 80s. Insanity and impracticality is nothing new for nuclear weapons. Hell, into the 70s they had the BOMARC and Genie anti-air weapons which would have been detonated in the air over North America in hopes of downing Soviet bomber formations!

[shipkiller1]

Originally Posted by The Bandit

No doubt they were, but they were still carried very frequently from 1965 until the late 80s. Insanity and impracticality is nothing new for nuclear weapons. Hell, into the 70s they had the BOMARC and Genie anti-air weapons which would have been detonated in the air over North America in hopes of downing Soviet bomber formations!

The MK-45's were out of the fleet by 1980. Subroc's (UUM-44) were out of the fleet by the middle/late 1980's.
Only 637's and first flight 688's (688-699) could employ the Subroc but lost the capability when converted to MK-117 or CCS MK-1 fire control systems. Second flight and above (SSN-700 +) were built with the newer FCS.
Subrocs were in all actuality a dead weapons system by 1980.

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by shipkiller1

The MK-45's were out of the fleet by 1980. Subroc's (UUM-44) were out of the fleet by the middle/late 1980's.
Only 637's and first flight 688's (688-699) could employ the Subroc but lost the capability when converted to MK-117 or CCS MK-1 fire control systems. Second flight and above (SSN-700 +) were built with the newer FCS.
Subrocs were in all actuality a dead weapons system by 1980.

According to what I've read the Mk45s were gone by 1976 but may have lingered on in storage for a few years. They weren't needed or wanted once the Mk 48 was in service. The 45s were supposed to be converted to the conventional "Freedom Torpedo" and were going to be purchased by Turkey and possibly Iran (along with USS Trout) but this fell through and as far as I know went nowhere.

In 1983, Congress mandated that the Mk 117 FCS be modified to maintain compatibility with SUBROC and remaining weapons were kept in active service until 1988, and removed from inventory in 1990. At the same time they were trying to get Sea Lance approved as its replacement (there would have been a nuclear-armed UUM-125A Sea Lance as well as the B version with the Mk 50 torpedo).

Edit: Didn't the 594 boats also have SUBROC capability? I know a lot of the early testing on it was done initially with Thresher and then with Barb IIRC, and they all had the Mk 113 FC.

[shipkiller1]

Yes, 594's did. I always forget those boats.

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by shipkiller1

Yes, 594's did. I always forget those boats.

Mind if I pick your brain on some of this stuff? I'm trying to get this right for my mod but for some of these specifics (mainly equipment, what class of sub had what sonar and some torpedo questions) and so far I haven't had any luck with sources.

[MadMike]

We exercised continually in SAC and Europe (NATO) with nuclear weapons, for good reason (I won't go into release procedures, which certainly does not involve "pushing a red button"). The Soviets were ready to use nuclear weapons on major European cities at the start of a conflict, as shown in declassified CIA files of offensive Soviet and Warsaw Pact battle plans. With systems like Pershing, which could hit Soviet targets in six minutes, it gives a potential aggressor something to think about.
As for operations like REFORGER, the USSR even had SLBM's allocated to destroy convoys.
Given our intel, which was very good, we had a pretty good notice of impending Soviet/Warsaw Pact exercises- the stories about Able Archer '83 are complete nonsense; during SAC Global Shield exercises we generated thousands of weapons (which was announced previously in the media). The Soviets had agents in place, and noted our movements and alert notifications (US and overseas). They also exercised in the Warsaw Treaty Organization with tactical nuclear weapons in the DDR, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Bulgaria.
That being said, our main threat was from special operations forces like Spetsnaz or DDR Fallschirmjager, who would begin operations just prior to the outbreak of war.

Yours, Mike

USAFE veteran, 1988-1992.

[beanodublin]

Is there anyway of getting a antisub missile like in Red Storm Riseing