Having Fun. Questions...

Lanzfeld · 06-06-17, 08:04 PM

This is a great balance act between fun and hardcore sim for me. Im loving it.

1. What is the detection threshold on the F5 tab for the enemy? Is it 10 or around there? I can read the estimate for "active" and when it gets to around 10 or so I turn to face the sub in case he goes active (which he will...see below) I present a low cross section but the estimate never goes down. You would think my cross section would make a big difference but the numbers don't change. This doesn't seem right.

2. Why, at least in "the dual" mission, is the enemy SSN using ACTIVE sonar most of the time? Isn't this a big NO-No in the sub vs. sub world when nobody even knows they have been detected? They are running through the seas pinging away! Jesus man.....wanna die?!? That's just bad, non-realistic AI.

3. Back to the F5 tab. The numbers at the top are the levels that I'm HEARING the enemy? My "active" number is if I went active?....no other meaning? Do I have this correct? The others are just the sound level I'm getting from my PASSIVE systems?

PS.....oh yeah..... The submarines accelerate in decelerate way way way way too fast.
this really needs to be fixed

daft · 06-07-17, 01:41 AM

As for the SU subs did, if I recall correctly, use active sonar as part of doctrine. I assume they simply accepted their higher detectability and figured it be better to know what's out there than cruising along all fat, dumb and happy while propagating noice in the water for all to hear. Someone will shortly be along to correct me if I'm mistaken on this.

PL_Harpoon · 06-07-17, 05:24 AM

1. They detect you above 10 then keep in contact above 0. The cross section isn't calculated in signal comparison but I've read that it works in the game (I think it's 25% when facing with bow/stern but will have to test that in a game).

2. Try hard difficulty - it's a little bit more realistic.

3. The numbers at the top show signal strength you're recieving so if it's close to 0 you know you're gonna loose contact soon. Active sonar (if disabled) shows predicted strength if you were to enable it.

4. At least that thing can be easily modified. Just copy the "Cold Waters\ColdWaters_Data\StreamingAssets\default" folder, rename it to "override", open it and go to "/vessels". There's a file there for each craft with acceleration and deceleration values among other things. Not sure how that would affect the AI though.

Julhelm · 06-07-17, 05:27 AM

Actually the aspect is factored in on the comparison but only if you have course data on them, I believe. If you turn to minimize your aspect you can see the numbers change.

Lanzfeld · 06-07-17, 05:30 AM

Okay I've raised the difficulty to Elite and now I'm tracking a November in "The dual" and he has not pinged once!

This could be great!

PL_Harpoon · 06-07-17, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Actually the aspect is factored in on the comparison but only if you have course data on them, I believe. If you turn to minimize your aspect you can see the numbers change.

That's strange. As I understand it, the angle that matters is one between your heading and direction of ping, right? Anyway, will have to test further

Lanzfeld · 06-07-17, 05:55 AM

Well I was tailing the November a while and it seem realistic and then he turned around and started pinging. Crazy Ivan is one thing but I'm not sure how legitimate active paining would be.

He could not detect me. I was 2500 yards in his baffles.

Fun and realistic (from what I've read) until the pinging.

PL_Harpoon · 06-07-17, 06:00 AM

Did a quick test and it seems to be calculated, but it's not 25%.
Some screens:

Here I'm facing the enemy and it shows 20:

When I present my full broadside it's 34:

So, 20/34 is closer to 60% than 25.

BTW, you may want to fix the Narvik Caper mission as it's supposed to be a covert ops yet it spawns you right on top (or should I say below

) of ASW ships.

Julhelm · 06-07-17, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PL_Harpoon

That's strange. As I understand it, the angle that matters is one between your heading and direction of ping, right? Anyway, will have to test further

Ah, right. I was thinking about his aspect against your sonar.

Yeah, maybe the insertions can be a bit on the hard side, but you can actually be detected but still win the mission providing you don't get sunk. We assumed the SEALs are elite operators who have the resources to turn potential failure into explosive success. What happens is that if you stay undetected, it's a guaranteed win. If you are detected but drop of the guys nonetheless, it's a diceroll.

Lanzfeld · 06-07-17, 06:15 AM

It would be nice to tell the enemy subs depth without having to change to the F5 screen. Maybe another line could be inserted on the tactical map for depth?

PL_Harpoon · 06-07-17, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Yeah, maybe the insertions can be a bit on the hard side, but you can actually be detected but still win the mission providing you don't get sunk. We assumed the SEALs are elite operators who have the resources to turn potential failure into explosive success. What happens is that if you stay undetected, it's a guaranteed win. If you are detected but drop of the guys nonetheless, it's a diceroll.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a fun mission, especially as there are more enemies around then torpedoes on your boat and I had some fun moments yesterday trying to get out with 2 leaking compartments, a Tango on my tail and helis above but staying undetected when at the start of a mission you're 7 KYDS from ASW craft that will find you the moment he starts pinging no matter what you do is simply impossible.
Keep in mind that the first screenshots was made within the first minute of the mission and I already was below the thermal layer.
Cheers.

Julhelm · 06-07-17, 07:07 AM

So, if you play the insertion missions at 1:1 scale they get kind of broken, because they were designed around the default 1:2 scale. That said they might be a bit too hard anyway. You can try reducing the # of enemies in Narvik, like so:

Find single008.txt in the StreamingAssets/Default folder and replace it with this one:

Julhelm · 06-07-17, 07:08 AM

Enemy subs occasionally active pinging is based in Soviet doctrine of the time, btw. They did not move to a predominantly passive doctrine until the late 80's when quieter boats and better sensors finally allowed it.

PL_Harpoon · 06-07-17, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

So, if you play the insertion missions at 1:1 scale they get kind of broken, because they were designed around the default 1:2 scale. That said they might be a bit too hard anyway. You can try reducing the # of enemies in Narvik, like so:

Find single008.txt in the StreamingAssets/Default folder and replace it with this one:

Thanks. I was actually thinking about keeping the number of enemy ships and instead messing around with player initial position so at least you have a chance to strike first.

Berserker · 06-07-17, 12:54 PM

Could it be as you turn broadside to your target that the crew automatically changes to the towed array sensors??

06-06-17, 08:04 PM	#1
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Having Fun. Questions... This is a great balance act between fun and hardcore sim for me. Im loving it. 1. What is the detection threshold on the F5 tab for the enemy? Is it 10 or around there? I can read the estimate for "active" and when it gets to around 10 or so I turn to face the sub in case he goes active (which he will...see below) I present a low cross section but the estimate never goes down. You would think my cross section would make a big difference but the numbers don't change. This doesn't seem right. 2. Why, at least in "the dual" mission, is the enemy SSN using ACTIVE sonar most of the time? Isn't this a big NO-No in the sub vs. sub world when nobody even knows they have been detected? They are running through the seas pinging away! Jesus man.....wanna die?!? That's just bad, non-realistic AI. 3. Back to the F5 tab. The numbers at the top are the levels that I'm HEARING the enemy? My "active" number is if I went active?....no other meaning? Do I have this correct? The others are just the sound level I'm getting from my PASSIVE systems? PS.....oh yeah..... The submarines accelerate in decelerate way way way way too fast. this really needs to be fixed Last edited by Lanzfeld; 06-06-17 at 08:27 PM.

06-07-17, 01:41 AM	#2
daft Captain Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 493 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	As for the SU subs did, if I recall correctly, use active sonar as part of doctrine. I assume they simply accepted their higher detectability and figured it be better to know what's out there than cruising along all fat, dumb and happy while propagating noice in the water for all to hear. Someone will shortly be along to correct me if I'm mistaken on this. __________________ And God said: \"Let there be Narrowband!\"

06-07-17, 05:55 AM	#7
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Well I was tailing the November a while and it seem realistic and then he turned around and started pinging. Crazy Ivan is one thing but I'm not sure how legitimate active paining would be. He could not detect me. I was 2500 yards in his baffles. Fun and realistic (from what I've read) until the pinging. Last edited by Lanzfeld; 06-07-17 at 06:04 AM.

06-07-17, 12:54 PM	#15
Berserker Aggressive skipper Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 328 Downloads: 2166 Uploads: 0	Could it be as you turn broadside to your target that the crew automatically changes to the towed array sensors?? __________________ Shoot,Move,Communicate..Kill,Destroy,Eradicate...

06-07-17, 05:24 AM	#3
PL_Harpoon Engineer Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 210 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 4	1. They detect you above 10 then keep in contact above 0. The cross section isn't calculated in signal comparison but I've read that it works in the game (I think it's 25% when facing with bow/stern but will have to test that in a game). 2. Try hard difficulty - it's a little bit more realistic. 3. The numbers at the top show signal strength you're recieving so if it's close to 0 you know you're gonna loose contact soon. Active sonar (if disabled) shows predicted strength if you were to enable it. 4. At least that thing can be easily modified. Just copy the "Cold Waters\ColdWaters_Data\StreamingAssets\default" folder, rename it to "override", open it and go to "/vessels". There's a file there for each craft with acceleration and deceleration values among other things. Not sure how that would affect the AI though.

06-07-17, 05:27 AM	#4
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 692 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	Actually the aspect is factored in on the comparison but only if you have course data on them, I believe. If you turn to minimize your aspect you can see the numbers change.

06-07-17, 05:30 AM	#5
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Okay I've raised the difficulty to Elite and now I'm tracking a November in "The dual" and he has not pinged once! This could be great!

06-07-17, 06:00 AM	#8
PL_Harpoon Engineer Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 210 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 4	Did a quick test and it seems to be calculated, but it's not 25%. Some screens: Here I'm facing the enemy and it shows 20: When I present my full broadside it's 34: So, 20/34 is closer to 60% than 25. BTW, you may want to fix the Narvik Caper mission as it's supposed to be a covert ops yet it spawns you right on top (or should I say below ) of ASW ships.

06-07-17, 06:15 AM	#10
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	It would be nice to tell the enemy subs depth without having to change to the F5 screen. Maybe another line could be inserted on the tactical map for depth?

06-07-17, 07:08 AM	#13
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 692 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	Enemy subs occasionally active pinging is based in Soviet doctrine of the time, btw. They did not move to a predominantly passive doctrine until the late 80's when quieter boats and better sensors finally allowed it.