US Politics Thread 2021-24

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Catfish

It is about the underlying situation called systemic racism. Not much people are actually racist (a few, of course) or actively do something against black people, Mexicans, or against "people coming from sh!tholes" as Mr. T. so elegantly described.
Systemic racism is so deeply embedded in american culture and behaviour that it is not even recognised as such anymore. It is what sociologists call cognitive dissonance, the "discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein they try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort."

Systemic racism *does* *not* *exist* in the US. If it did, then people of color wouldn't even be allowed to become doctors or lawyers, or buy houses, or obtain medical care.

Equality of opportunity is guaranteed, not equality of outcome. Minorities have received special treatment for so long, that they view equal treatment as racist and discriminatory.

The *only* people and groups continuing to claim systemic racism is a thing are those for whom it is a grift that they have to keep the grift going to continue lining their pockets.

Can anyone explain how many people Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton have helped in the last 40+ years? How about BLM? I guess Patrisse Cullers was planning on providing affordable housing to black people with her millions in real estate?

It's not just limited to race - you can pick any -ism to run a grift. Sexual identity and gender politics are also a good one to take gullible people's money...

[MaDef]

Is the American law racist in its construction

What do you think systemic racism is?

I posted what you wrote directly above my qestion. What the photo of the declaration says is that keeping slavery was not the 'initial cause', but their cause as such.

Re-read my post. "Cause" + "Catalyst" are not synonyms. Nor am I trying to downplay the role slavery played in the Civil War.

And while many of you think slavery was ended with the end of the "Civil War", think again. It went underground (no pun intended) and is called "human trafficking".

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by MaDef

What do you think systemic racism is?

Re-read my post. "Cause" + "Catalyst" are not synonyms. Nor am I trying to downplay the role slavery played in the Civil War.

And while many of you think slavery was ended with the end of the "Civil War", think again. It went underground (no pun intended) and is called "human trafficking".

In some places it's still in the open: Africa, the Middle East, parts of Asia...

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

In some places it's still in the open: Africa, the Middle East, parts of Asia...

we're speaking of the U.S. here, Other parts of the world aren't really my concern for the purpose of this discussion.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by MaDef

we're speaking of the U.S. here, Other parts of the world aren't really my concern for the purpose of this discussion.

You're making a fallacious assumption that racism only exists in the US when that couldn't be further from the truth - and that only racism is associated with slavery.

I've lived and worked around the world - the US is the *least* racist, sexist, classist country that exists today.

Japan, for example, is the most polite racist country you'll ever see. The entire country. They won't grant citizenship to Japanese people born in another country. They have Japanese-only bars, restaurants, public baths, etc. They'll tell a round-eye that something is not possible (with the phrase "maybe yes" which means "no way in hell") and then turm around and happily accommodate a Japanese person to do the same thing.

Australia? They're still treating aboriginal people like second class citizens.

India? It's nothing but based upon caste...

Let's not forget wealthy middle eastern people who hire maids from Philippines or Singapore and then take away their passports and work them like dogs with no pay...

All of the Russian and Ukrainian sex slave bar girls in Pusan bars... The Eastern European and Philipino singing acts hired on 6 month contracts to play at hotel bars in Asian countries that are essentially indentured...

I was at a bar in South Korea one night where a philipino asked me if I wanted "company." I turned down the offer but noticed a small scar on one side of her thigh and a bigger scar on the opposite side. Just about the size of a .22 bullet. I got her talking where she admitted her "manager" when she was working at a bar in Philippines shot her for trying to quit and then sent her to Korea, swapping with that bar owner to send a Korean girl to work in his bar... Yep - no slavery elsewhere but the US...

[Moonlight]

We have slavery in the UK too, the migrants are smuggled in by criminal gangs from europe or where ever they can get them from and they're forced to work in backstreet sweatshops, me thinks prostitution will be involved as well.
The poor bastards don't have a bleeding chance of a decent life, the police and our government knows it's happening but they do **** all to stop it, if the authorities happen to discover a building housing these sweatshop migrants then the newspapers give them grief for a few days and then it disappears into the night again.
I would say it's happening all over europe, no country is free of this scourge.

[Rockstar]

[Rockstar]

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

You're making a fallacious assumption that racism only exists in the US when that couldn't be further from the truth - and that only racism is associated with slavery.

I've lived and worked around the world - the US is the *least* racist, sexist, classist country that exists today.

Japan, for example, is the most polite racist country you'll ever see. The entire country. They won't grant citizenship to Japanese people born in another country. They have Japanese-only bars, restaurants, public baths, etc. They'll tell a round-eye that something is not possible (with the phrase "maybe yes" which means "no way in hell") and then turm around and happily accommodate a Japanese person to do the same thing.

Australia? They're still treating aboriginal people like second class citizens.

India? It's nothing but based upon caste...

Let's not forget wealthy middle eastern people who hire maids from Philippines or Singapore and then take away their passports and work them like dogs with no pay...

All of the Russian and Ukrainian sex slave bar girls in Pusan bars... The Eastern European and Philipino singing acts hired on 6 month contracts to play at hotel bars in Asian countries that are essentially indentured...

I was at a bar in South Korea one night where a philipino asked me if I wanted "company." I turned down the offer but noticed a small scar on one side of her thigh and a bigger scar on the opposite side. Just about the size of a .22 bullet. I got her talking where she admitted her "manager" when she was working at a bar in Philippines shot her for trying to quit and then sent her to Korea, swapping with that bar owner to send a Korean girl to work in his bar... Yep - no slavery elsewhere but the US...

You're reading way to much into what I wrote, the discussion is about racism in the U.S. and whether it's systemic. And for the record, the 1619 project inevitably links slavery with racism in it's curriculum. (FYI it also teaches that pale skin is a sign of racism).

As for racism being the only cause of slavery, (your words not mine), you inferred it on your own since my statements are pretty concise. However history does indicate that where racism is accepted slavery is right there in the mix kind of like peas and carrots.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by MaDef

What do you think systemic racism is?

Re-read my post. "Cause" + "Catalyst" are not synonyms. Nor am I trying to downplay the role slavery played in the Civil War.

And while many of you think slavery was ended with the end of the "Civil War", think again. It went underground (no pun intended) and is called "human trafficking".

My comment was a question to Catfish based on his comment in #1514(one page back)

Where he wrote:
"
It is about the underlying situation called systemic racism.
"
And furthermore
"
Systemic racism is so deeply embedded in american culture and behaviour that it is not even recognised as such anymore. It is what sociologists call cognitive dissonance, the "discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein they try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.
"
It was the words Systemic racism, that made me wonder if the American law is racist in its construction

Markus

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by mapuc

My comment was a question to Catfish based on his comment in #1514(one page back)

Where he wrote:
"
It is about the underlying situation called systemic racism.
"
And furthermore
"
Systemic racism is so deeply embedded in american culture and behaviour that it is not even recognised as such anymore. It is what sociologists call cognitive dissonance, the "discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein they try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.
"
It was the words Systemic racism, that made me wonder if the American law is racist in its construction

Markus

Trying to answer that, initially it was of course "racist" by today's definition, like a lot of other nations of the time. I have no idea whether slavery was written down as an existing law, but it was self-evidently accepted everywhere, what would you need laws for?
The initial U.S. economy especially in the south was built on the exploitation and occupational segregation of people of color.
Laws were there in a way that any marriage between black and white was not allowed, which punishment should be used, how much a negro should cost and which basic support he had to receive, like food, water and clothes. The slave holder had a bit of responsibility, but no one really cared about breaking those laws.
There could also be mutual respect by both sdes, but the underlying system was only supprting the white population.
"Funny" enough people of colour lost their right to vote soon again, after the secession wars, then the indroduction of the "Jim Crow laws", and worse. Those laws have since been removed, but not the basis how some people still think.
Then there were the Indians, the (broken) treaties, the reservations. Female indians are still regarded as fair game by the white population, up north to Canada. If someone is interested in that stuff you can read some works by Tomson Highway, who we have met personally, if accidentally.

This first link tells a lot about the economy back then and how it worked:
https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...c-opportunity/

This probably tells you a bit about what i mean with 'systemic', today. First one is a spin-off of the second link, which shows a broader picture.
https://www.annualreviews.org/shot-o...m-roots-in-law

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10...-110316-113452

Slavery is of course linked to racism, but racism can exist without direct slavery being allowed.

[mapuc]

^Thank you for your answer.

Second link made me sad. I had hoped some of you would have written no-the American law is not racist in its construction and
then I read in the headlines in your second link

U.S. Racism and Inequality Are Rooted in the Law

Markus

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Female indians are still regarded as fair game by the white population, up north to Canada.

I think you might want to rephrase that statement. I am a white Canadian male and I do not consider Indigenous women 'fair game'. And I don't know any other Canadian men who think that way either. And I don't appreciate the accusation.

[Catfish]

@ mapuc i Would rather call it systemic inequality, not racist hate. Much more subtle.

@u crank: It sure is not the majority, but there is evidence.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

@u crank: It sure is not the majority, but there is evidence.

Perhaps you could have stated that instead of a broad statement that accuses all white Canadian men of rape and murder. And no one that I know is denying the fact that it has happened.