Things you like about CW, Things you don't like.

[PL_Harpoon]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

And if it isn't a significant congitive load, is there really anything complaining about? You call a game "unfinished" because of a supposed flaw that only caused an insignificant cognitive load on you in any case?

Perhaps because it detracts from immersing yourself in being a captain? At least that's my (and I believe I'm not alone here) main complaint here.

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

I know I am outnumbered by about 100:1 here but yes, that, and I wasn't specifically referring to DW there - the most universal, commonly given "aid" in all of subsims seems to be the automatic helm and plane control.

The thing is, the manual controls doesn't make the game more challenging. They actually help with torpedo evasion.
Perhaps this will make you understand our problem:
I want to change course from 0 to 90.
In Fast Attack (or DW) I give appropriate orders and fast forward until the task is complete.
In Cold Waters (vanilla) I put rudder at 30, fast forward until I reach 85 and press X to level it.
Nothing was gained gameplay wise, but something was lost. For that moment of turning instead of feeling like a captain I felt like a child with RC boat.

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

In case you hadn't realized it, there is actually already a helm station (just not a plane station) in DW - just click on the right parts of the rudder window to manually set the rudder.

Yeah, right. I forgot about that. But there's still no manual planes/ballast controls.

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Everyone is staring desperately out the 3D view in Cold Waters because the torpedoes are persistent in their reattacks.

Well, not everyone, and definitely not "desperately ". I for one do all my defensive manoeuvres from the tactical map. And I find dodging torpedoes in CW very easy. Only when there's more than 2 I feel really threatened (and I mean 3 torps that can kill you with one hit).

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

The two are not comparable. A autopilot in a flight sim typically only keeps the plane flying straight and level (and if you just want Straight and Level, Cold Waters has that), or flying between waypoints in a non-combat situation. It is not really helpful in a combat situation so once plane get into the combat zone, the gamer takes control of the plane himself.

In a subsim, the automatic steering dominates in virtually all circumstances, including combat.

I think this is where we mainly disagree regarding the manual control. You seem to think, that manual controls are somewhat challenging during combat while to me combat (especially defensive) is actually one time where I would use manual controls even if there was an option to just give orders.

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Speaking as a person that has never really mastered TMA, it is nevertheless easy to do once you get enough signal to classify the target and the DEMON shows the first blade - at that point you get speed and once you lock speed and bearing, fiddling that onscreen sliderule to get course and range is not that hard. It is hard (beyond my ability, honestly) without that, but with that it is easy.

It may be easy when you are tracking a single target in a calm environment. But definetely not when you have multiple manoeuvring targets and torpedoes coming your way. But this is not the case of more difficult = better. And I don't want TMA in CW. But just as I don't like to be (practically) forced to do TMA in DW when I don't want to, I don't want to do manual steering in CW.

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

And shouldn't the captain "pay attention" to his subs' maneuvers? But realistic subsims don't really make us do that.

Honestly, I very much doubt that a captain would order the helm to change course and then stare at the instruments over the shoulder of a helmsman. Unless it's out of boredom. You know what's more dangerous than piloting the boat? Loading torpedoes. And I don't think that a captain is staring at a CCTV screen while the torpedoes are being loaded "just to make sure". No, when he gives orders to change depth he has to trust his helmsmen to do their job. Besides, he has a helm officer (or whatever he's called - the guy who sits behind the "pilots") to supervise them.

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

They might make us care about the TMA solution, but maneuvering seems beneath our notice, something to be fobbed off to the Autocrew. The result are players like Brygun, whose inattentiveness cost him his game, yet he blames the game!

Again, one of the reasons why I like CW is that it doesn't force me to do TMA (which btw I generally really like to do, just not as a captain). it's that it forces me to be another crew member. For me, the appeal of original RSR
was that it didn't force you do impersonate any crew member.

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Maybe there is nothing "wrong", but it definitely has nothing to do with real submariner mentality over the same situation. It is also a sign a game is not putting enough cognitive load on the player if it is has to be used too often.

I'm sure the life of every sailor - submariner or not - is filled with boredom and waiting. A proper sim acknowledges that and gives you, as a player, a way to skip those parts with time acceleration. CW is no exception here.
Stating for the n-th time in this post - the lack of giving orders is bad not because it makes the game difficult - it's because every time you have to manually steer the boat it reminds you that you're playing a game, effectively braking immersion.