Germany and Second London Naval Treaty

Gorshkov · 06-29-10, 03:41 PM

Hi, there!

I have read many times that trial of Karl Doenitz in Nuremberg was unfair because Allied submarines fought exactly hard as U-boats did during World War II. The main point here is both sides violated 1936 Second London Naval Treaty with respect to submarine warfare. This treaty stated that merchant vessels which did not demonstrate "persistent refusal to stop" or "active resistance" could not be sunk without the ships' crews and passengers being first delivered to a "place of safety".

However in fact Germany violated this treaty first because in September 1939 U-boats carried-out such four lawless actions:

- 3.09.1939 - the unescorted and unarmed "Athenia" was torpedoed without warning by U-30 about 250 miles west of Inishtrahull.

- 14.09.1939 - the unescorted "Vancouver City" was hit by one torpedo from U-28 and sank about 75 miles west-southwest of Milford Haven.

- 17.09.1939 - the unescorted "Kafiristan" was torpedoed by U-53 about 350 miles west of Cape Clear. The ship had been missed by a first torpedo at 15.42 hours and was sunk by a coup de grâce at 16.14 hours.

- 24.09.1939 - the unescorted "Hazelside" was torpedoed by U-31 southeast of Fastnet. The ship then tried to get away at full speed, but the U-boat stopped the ship with gunfire and sunk her later with a coup de grâce.

Only on October 4th, 1939 Germans announced that they modified prize rules since that date. So even if both sides fought against London Treaty rules maybe Allies simply had to follow German actions to be able to wage war on equal terms?

06-29-10, 03:41 PM	#1
Gorshkov Commodore Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 604 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Germany and Second London Naval Treaty Hi, there! I have read many times that trial of Karl Doenitz in Nuremberg was unfair because Allied submarines fought exactly hard as U-boats did during World War II. The main point here is both sides violated 1936 Second London Naval Treaty with respect to submarine warfare. This treaty stated that merchant vessels which did not demonstrate "persistent refusal to stop" or "active resistance" could not be sunk without the ships' crews and passengers being first delivered to a "place of safety". However in fact Germany violated this treaty first because in September 1939 U-boats carried-out such four lawless actions: - 3.09.1939 - the unescorted and unarmed "Athenia" was torpedoed without warning by U-30 about 250 miles west of Inishtrahull. - 14.09.1939 - the unescorted "Vancouver City" was hit by one torpedo from U-28 and sank about 75 miles west-southwest of Milford Haven. - 17.09.1939 - the unescorted "Kafiristan" was torpedoed by U-53 about 350 miles west of Cape Clear. The ship had been missed by a first torpedo at 15.42 hours and was sunk by a coup de grâce at 16.14 hours. - 24.09.1939 - the unescorted "Hazelside" was torpedoed by U-31 southeast of Fastnet. The ship then tried to get away at full speed, but the U-boat stopped the ship with gunfire and sunk her later with a coup de grâce. Only on October 4th, 1939 Germans announced that they modified prize rules since that date. So even if both sides fought against London Treaty rules maybe Allies simply had to follow German actions to be able to wage war on equal terms? Last edited by Gorshkov; 06-29-10 at 03:51 PM.