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SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997
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SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997 |
08-24-09, 02:34 AM
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#1 |
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Ocean Warrior
 Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea
Posts: 2,822
Downloads: 813
Uploads: 0
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RFB vs. FOTRS vs. TMO
I have played each. Here are my comments, and please weigh in with your evaluations. I play at 80% realism with map updates on and the camera view enabled (but not for the torpedoes.)
FOTRS--great visuals and excellent eye candy; way too many planes (like out of control); and it appears that a Balao at 400 ft. depth can avoid most destroyers, but if you are at 300 ft. it is vulnerable. What is a good mod that will give you occasional or realistic air traffic? No airstrike mod eliminates all airstrikes. TMO--destroyers are too tough for me at 300 ft. How can you avoid them? I haven't commanded a sub that goes deeper tnan 300 feet when playing TMO. RFB/RSRD--good game. Not as visually excellent as FOTRS, not as many planes, and destroyers are tough but not impossible. Potential huge problmem. Either RFB or TMO did not display the torpedo angle on the attack map, which made verifying the firing solution all but impossible. That is a huge drawback for a manual targeter, especially one using the Easy AoB mod. At least that is how it was a few months ago. Maybe the designers fixed that probem? (I think it was TMO.) Air traffic in RFB and TMO is reasonable. FOTRS has a good collection of Jap aircraft, but they are "Everywhere", so I enabled the No Airstike Mod because I was spending all of my time diving to avoid plane attacks. Mods--Peabody gave me skwas directions to improving loading for the deck gun in FORTS. It worked and my deck gun reloads and can be fired every 2/3 seconds. The Easy AoB mod is a game changer, and allows multiple target attacks on a convoy travelling on the same or similar course at steep angles and at long distances. Werner Sobe's periscope fix makes sighting for range/aspect ratio using he the top of target's mast much more accurate. This helps in FOTRS as the range TGT tool operates from the top of the mast in the FOTRS mod, but it is not good as the sighting from the smoke stacks, deck, etc. when using RFB and TMO. Also, getting the target's in FOTRS is more accurate using Werner Sobes periscope fix because the top of the mast is easier spot so it is easier to determine the correct range when using the Easy AoB mod. However, a good night time scope is needed in FOTRS to overcome the the difficluty of sighting a the mast, and particularly the top of the target's mast, at night. RFB and TMO target's are easier to attack at night becasue range is not measured by sighting the top of the target's mast in many cases. Any suggestions re a night periscope that won't screw up the FOTRS mod, and for RFB/TMO would be helpful in regards to night time attacks. That is my quick analysis. |
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08-24-09, 03:14 AM
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#2 | |
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PacWagon
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts
Posts: 2,901
Downloads: 280
Uploads: 0
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Quote:
I've played RFB&RSRDC for most of my SH4ing and I securely enjoy it's realism (Hogan's alley, limited-no air traffic until you reach japan, real availability dates, the list goes on) I do miss some of the finer points of TMO, like the new construction flotillas, and the flotilla up in Holy Loch, Scotland. The destroyers are good in RFB, but absolutely positively deadly in TMO, I kinda miss that. as for manual targeting/attack map. I fire all my shots from the periscope, firing from observations and sent data to the TDC, I feel much more macho that way   but it also feels much more realistic for me, I get up close and personal with the merchants, thanks to RFB's real damage model. And a real skipper can't consult his map when he's maneuvering the sub to take a shot at <1000 yards.
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Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168) 114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C! |
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08-24-09, 05:41 AM
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#3 | |
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Navy Seal
 Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DeLand, FL
Posts: 8,899
Downloads: 135
Uploads: 52
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The WernerSobe periscope mod breaks the free camera in RFB and TMO. The attack map has always worked fine in TMO. If it didn't I wouldn't use the mod. Access to the attack map is more difficult with RFB because if its keyboard layout but that can be fixed with TMOkeys.
I choose not to make optics unrealistically good. It was always difficult to visualize mastheads in real life, and their height was often changed from published figures anyway, for the specific purpose of driving you the sub jockey crazy! It worked very well. Misses are part of simulation. I also choose not to disregard Beery's extensive research into gun loading rates which showed clearly that rates in TMO and FOTRS are a little too fast and RFB, slow as it is, matches historical rates of fire for submarines under combat. I use my deck gun a lot and like it the way it is because it corresponds to reality as closely as we can make SH4 do that. Good analysis though. Yes, if you find yourself in the middle of a flyway in FOTRS you'll have your hands full with aircraft, as they did in the real war. If that happens, either put up with it in a target rich environment or move. I do object strongly to RFB vs FOTRS vs TMO. I love all three and have installations for each. It should be RFB and FOTRS and TMO. These are all fantastic mod packages. In my last TMO cruise I had a heavily escorted convoy vector in airstrikes while I was trying to attack. Between the aircraft and the six escorts I was driven away, scoring only one subchaser and one merchie for over 48 hours of near continuous action. I collected 25% hull damage for my efforts...  I did manage to sink a subchaser with gunfire and a merchie but decided that with only 150' of water available, plus my damage, the better part of valor was to seek combat elsewhere. THAT's the experience I'm looking for, not making the game easy for the sake of racking up already too-high scores.However, easier options need to be available for players and most of the mods don't have a way to do that. You can layer EZplot on top of TMO to restore the original plotting system, or use TMO with Training Wheels, which does the same thing. You can cheat on manual targeting by loading SCAF (stock version, make sure you download the version for your supermod setup)and some souped up optics to make targeting artificially easy. One of the optics mods even unrealistically increases the periscope magnification so you can sight the masthead more easily. But these are all learning tools to be abandoned when you develop the skill to handle the real thing. There's nothing like the satisfaction of returning from a full-out TMO cruise in late war, when targets are few and the escorts are mucho dangerous with an SH4Report like this one, my first complete cruise in my career in a year (too much testing!): Quote:
Next cruise, the mod list will look plenty different! Those are year-old mods up there.
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Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS Last edited by Rockin Robbins; 08-24-09 at 08:01 AM. |
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08-24-09, 08:10 PM
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#4 |
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Ocean Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea
Posts: 2,822
Downloads: 813
Uploads: 0
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EZ Plot -- Rockin Robbins
EZ Plot, linked by RR in his post above is a PhP file. How do you open it? Is it a mod?
Last edited by I'm goin' down; 08-25-09 at 12:02 AM. |
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08-25-09, 11:27 AM
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#5 |
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Navy Seal
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DeLand, FL
Posts: 8,899
Downloads: 135
Uploads: 52
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Ruh, roh, something wrong with the link? I'll check it out and fix if necessary.
It's a mod in a 7zip format, correction: it's a .rar file, openable with 7zip or winrar, JSGME installed. It simply restores the stock plotting system to any mod configuration. Man! TMO/SH4 boots so much quicker with my simplified, updated system! TMO 1.8 is visually stunning as well! Confirmed, the link is fine from the post above. I went all the way through the download process and the entire process worked correctly from beginning to end. I suppose it's possible that Subsim downloads were being maintained when you tried it and the PHP file you saw was just an intermediary step. Try again! It's worth it. EZplot opens up TMO for a large group of people who otherwise would be locked out during their training phase. And even better, when you don't need it any more you can get rid of it in seconds! I use it for just about all my tutorial videos to make the targeting process easier to understand.
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Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS |
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08-25-09, 03:14 PM
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#6 |
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Ocean Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea
Posts: 2,822
Downloads: 813
Uploads: 0
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same problem
I went to the downloads site rather than using your EZ Plot link. That worked.
Last edited by I'm goin' down; 08-25-09 at 04:23 PM. |
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Linear Mode
