Game Mechanics Questions

[0x7d]

I've been playing SHIII since it's original CD release but there are some mechanics I've had questions about for a long time... I'm currently playing with OneAlex GWX.



Are ships compartmentalized allowing them to take a torp, such as on the keel of the King George BB, that would allow them to remain afloat indefinitely?

Can ships pump out water?


Sometimes you'll put a ship out of commission and begin to hear the creaking noise as if they're sinking, yet they remain afloat (like my previous example) while some men have abandoned ship while others continue to man the guns. Are there multiple stages of abandoning ship?



In the campaign, do ships/convoys despawn if they're N km away from your boat?


Is crush depth dynamic for a given boat at 100% hull?


Does changing speed to 1 kts actually change the ability for a ship to passively detect you?


Does silent running change your ability to be detected if you're going slow and not actively reloading or repairing?

Oh and after so long of playing this, yesterday was the first day I noted that men who have abandoned ship in life rafts say 'help!'.

[JohnCarterOfMars]

I'm a n00b at this game, too, but I'll take a stab at answering some of your questions based on observations of my own and from reading various manuals and readme files.

Originally Posted by 0x7d

Are ships compartmentalized allowing them to take a torp, such as on the keel of the King George BB, that would allow them to remain afloat indefinitely?

I just ran into this myself in a patrol. From my observations I'd say yes, they are compartmentalized.

I replayed several times from a saved game to see what happens.

In run 1, it was choppy waters and I watched the ship bob up and down while the crew was in their lifeboat. The ship stopped moving and was listing to port. I could see the waves washing over the port side. After about an hour of game time, the ship sank. The crew "woo-hooed" but I got no message that "she's going down." In this case, the sinking was credited to the weather.

In run 2, it was smooth waters and I watched the ship from periscope depth. I circled it two or three times for over an hour and the listing to port never increased. I finally decided to use a second torpedo (I only had five to begin with) and was in the process of distancing myself to set up the shot when a plane flew over and dropped a bomb. It missed the cargo ship and I eventually sank it with a second torpedo.

In run 3, I backed it up to a save from before taking the first shot. This time, I hit the ship in a different location and she went down immediately.

Separately, from watching the current videos of the Onealex edition patrols by Tonci, if the boiler room gets flooded, the boiler will explode. This also suggests compartments in the models.

Originally Posted by 0x7d

Is crush depth dynamic for a given boat at 100% hull?

From reading the manual for SH3-Commander, I would say no.

SH3-Commander has a gameplay setting to randomize crush depths. That suggests to me that the core game does not have dynamic crush depths or SH3-Commander wouldn't have had the need to simulate one.

From the SH3-Commander manual:

Randomise U-boat crush depth: SH3 Commander will set the theoretical crush depth, with minor randomisation, for all U-boat types and variations. Editable through 'SH3 options.cfg' located in your SH3 Commander\Cfg folder.

Originally Posted by 0x7d

Does changing speed to 1 kts actually change the ability for a ship to passively detect you?

More to the point, detection is based on RPMs of the engines, not directly by speed. Most players suggest setting your speed to 1 because this results in RPMs under 100 (55 is ideal).

Also, try to minimize your profile shown to the searching ship by trying to put your ship on a parallel bearing (between 350-10 or 170-190) so there is less surface to reflect pings.

Also, when you think you are in the baffles of the searching ship (in the other ship's 170-190 bearing}, do a quick spring at flank speed for about 30 seconds and then go back to slow speed when you emerge from their baffles.

Note that if you want more difficulty, there is an optional mod called "Negative buoyancy" that will slowly sink the ship at less than 1 kt of speed, so stopping altogether becomes more hazardous.

Originally Posted by 0x7d

Does silent running change your ability to be detected if you're going slow and not actively reloading or repairing?

From what I've read, the answer is yes.

Note also that the "hard-coded " patches from h.sie and Stiebler are included in the Onealex edition.

In the h.sie options, there is a patch in the Stiebler section called "Silent-Running Fix" that attempts to simulate the fact that pumps are also switched off to minimize sound. When you are below 100m and in silent running, you will slowly sink because you get heavier by not pumping out leaky water.

This patch is set to ON by default.

Originally Posted by 0x7d

Oh and after so long of playing this, yesterday was the first day I noted that men who have abandoned ship in life rafts say 'help!'.

I thought that was oddly eerie, too, but then I rewatched the movie Das Boot and found out that it was a sound clip taken from the scene where the crew of the submarine is watching the sailors from the sinking cargo ship that they hit as they were jumping into the water.

If I can add one question of my own:

I know that adding crew to a station (like the Bridge) will contribute to the effectiveness of the station (the green bar above it). Once the green bar is at 100%, adding more crew will not increase the station's effectiveness. My question is whether or not each crew on watch has his own detection check or does the bridge station do one consolidated detection check based on the green bar? In other words, even if the station is at 100% effectiveness, is there still an increased chance of detection by having more eyes on the bridge or are only the crew required to reach 100% all that is needed?

[0x7d]

Thank you for the replies!


I did enable that negative buoyancy option. I like the addition, it provides a slight challenge (even more so when >200m).

To add to your green bar question, the engine/motor rooms are typically filled to capacity-2, with the green bar ~80% full. Is there any reason to fill either room to capacity? My only assumption is that the additional personnel contribute to repair times.

[Hebe Vollmaus]

Originally Posted by 0x7d

I've been playing SHIII since it's original CD release but there are some mechanics I've had questions about for a long time... I'm currently playing with OneAlex GWX.

With "original CD release" you mean SH3 v1.0?
I have never seen OneAlex-GWX by myself, but it looks to me your funny questions are more general as the Title says.

Are ships compartmentalized allowing them to take a torp, such as on the keel of the King George BB, that would allow them to remain afloat indefinitely?

Yes.

Can ships pump out water?

No.
You may study old post describing the relationship between Hitpoints and Flooding.
Go read Zones.cfg and try figure what there entries mean.
For example:

Thread: [REL] Longer sinking times for TMO 2.5 (from Bilge_Rat with quote from a original develloper post#6)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...47&postcount=6

Thread: [TEC] The Noob Modders Task Force (from iambecomelife post#49)
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...2&postcount=49

Thread: NYGM and GW - Ship Damage FAQ (from CCIP post#1)
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...56&postcount=1

There are many others.

Sometimes you'll put a ship out of commission and begin to hear the creaking noise as if they're sinking, yet they remain afloat (like my previous example) while some men have abandoned ship while others continue to man the guns. Are there multiple stages of abandoning ship?

No.
What you see is called Eye Candy. Swimming and dead men in water are particles for debris only. Eye candy or Holliwood-effect.
As long a ship creates gunfire, it is not out of commission. If you see manned guns deep under water i would call this a bug. The men should be gone. The same as a flattering flag deep under water.

In the campaign, do ships/convoys despawn if they're N km away from your boat?

No.
They exist further as a Stub or Placement-Point/Holder. As all units out of the 3D-Dome-region.

Is crush depth dynamic for a given boat at 100% hull?

I have not made any tests to check this, so I dont know for shure.
But i think the crush-depth is hard-coded, at least on my SH3.exe. The entry in the Zon-file is useless here.

Does changing speed to 1 kts actually change the ability for a ship to passively detect you?


Does silent running change your ability to be detected if you're going slow and not actively reloading or repairing?

LOL. Yes!
The word "change" is remarkable. Speed is not make your boat undetectable. You can be detected with 0 knots.

Oh and after so long of playing this, yesterday was the first day I noted that men who have abandoned ship in life rafts say 'help!'.

Now try to make him silent. With Guns. LOL.
I bet you cant.


Some words to your Debug-Log.
You have to use external Tools for help. Try OllyDbg, IDA and Procmon.

[0x7d]

I'm not quite sure how my questions were funny in any way.


Debug logs aren't the same as external tools that only provide performance information (procmon) with limited stack traces or decompilers which require significant effort and knowledge to use effectively (been there, done that...).

Now, if we had a decompiler that could attach to SH3.exe while running, something akin to .NET Reflector + Visual Studio, that would be another thing altogether.

But we'd have a community-written engine by now, if that were the case.


Thanks for the response regardless.