Mark-10 Circular Run? RFB 1.4 1941

[Contemplative Flame]

So I haven't gotten on or played much in ages but I felt the need recently. Started up a December 1, 1941 start with a 0 renown S-boat out of the Asiatic Fleet, all stock men and equipment (as far as RFB 1.4 is concerned). I manage to come across a freighter heading south past Luzon once war breaks out. 4 torps, 2 hits, finished with the gun. About 50nm north of this encounter while heading towards the Luzon Strait, I see a second merchant.



It was still dark so I tried to repeat another night surface run. This one must have had better lookouts though because he started to dodge. I get into a stern chase which is NOT fun in an S-boat because of the low speed (at least the gun is bow-mounted for all the good it does). I set up a nice spread, 2 torps, one will be starboard of him, one port.



The first goes off, not supposed to be a hit, but just block him in. Then I launch the one to his port, and it turns....and turns....and TURNS! By the point I fully realized what I was looking at, it was mostly too late. I sounded crash dive and all the bells started going off as I swung the rudder all the way over, but sadly to no avail.


The Mark-10 hit just on the rear of the hull, right before where it slopes down to the shafts proper and narrows. In other words it was the last of the hull it could have hit, and if it came by just a couple yards further back it would have passed harmlessly between the hull and the tail.


There was some flooding of course, and the bulkhead was damaged, but worst of all was the propeller shaft damage. Maybe it was my fault for not going All Stop immediately, but shortly after impact and initial repairs, they jumped to .92 damaged.


Naturally at this point I had to suspend chasing/shelling the now-burning and frantically zig-zagging merchantman who probably couldn't believe his luck. The bulkhead gave way a little more and we started slightly going down by the stern. Buuuut the plucky engine room crew got the bulkhead sealed and the room pumped. Good news!


All told after hours of repair work dead in the water, the only lasting damage was...the two propeller shafts....which you can't seem to do any work on while patrolling. Bad news...and worse. I could only manage 3-4 knots, and that was at Full. I didn't want to risk Flank and ruining them altogether just to get stranded in the middle of the sea. But the creme de la creme is coming....


Manila just got bombed and they called off all their boats, redirecting us to Surabaya, Java. That would normally be fine...except when I'm riiiight off Luzon and in desperate need of prop shaft repairs. So...off I go tooling towards Surabaya at a few knots. A loooong way to go indeed. Pretty uneventful too...until it wasn't.


About halfway between Borneo and Singapore chugging south, don't I just have to stumble upon a pair of destroyers and a gunboat in the pitch black? I can't go very fast so turning away and running isn't an option. I dive to periscope depth and hope there aren't any leaks from the damage. I don't know if they saw me slip under or heard me on passive, but either way they saw me and started pinging with active.


To make a long, sad story short, they missed many depth charge attacks, setting them too deep, but not matter how long or far or where I turned, they kept on me. I just wasn't fast enough. When one passed right over my conning tower and his keel ripped off my periscopes and partially destroyed the deck gun, I knew I had only one option left, dive.


Now you know where this is going. 80 ft? No problem. Still getting pinged. 100? A-ok. 120, 150, 170...hull is still good...but can't lose em. My men are going nuts getting pinged. Well, screw it 200...and something gives. I immediately go flank speed dive planes up but like the damned torpedo that started all this, it was already too late by the time I noticed what was going on. All the bulkheads started to leak and we lost the boat in the dark night somewhere between Borneo and Malaya, not even a month into the war.


Which brings me to the real question: Has anyone ever had a Mark-10, NOT a Mark-14, circular run before (any mod or stock for that matter)? I HAVE seen Mark-14s do it, and I'm always edgy with them early war and keep a sharp eye out when I launch. But the 10? I thought I was good. I wasn't paying as much attention. At first I thought I messed up and had my gyro angle wrong. But then it kept going and going, and when I realized the situation it was a forgone conclusion but for dumb luck.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Contemplative Flame

So I haven't gotten on or played much in ages but I felt the need recently. Started up a December 1, 1941 start with a 0 renown S-boat out of the Asiatic Fleet, all stock men and equipment (as far as RFB 1.4 is concerned). I manage to come across a freighter heading south past Luzon once war breaks out. 4 torps, 2 hits, finished with the gun. About 50nm north of this encounter while heading towards the Luzon Strait, I see a second merchant.



It was still dark so I tried to repeat another night surface run. This one must have had better lookouts though because he started to dodge. I get into a stern chase which is NOT fun in an S-boat because of the low speed (at least the gun is bow-mounted for all the good it does). I set up a nice spread, 2 torps, one will be starboard of him, one port.



The first goes off, not supposed to be a hit, but just block him in. Then I launch the one to his port, and it turns....and turns....and TURNS! By the point I fully realized what I was looking at, it was mostly too late. I sounded crash dive and all the bells started going off as I swung the rudder all the way over, but sadly to no avail.


The Mark-10 hit just on the rear of the hull, right before where it slopes down to the shafts proper and narrows. In other words it was the last of the hull it could have hit, and if it came by just a couple yards further back it would have passed harmlessly between the hull and the tail.


There was some flooding of course, and the bulkhead was damaged, but worst of all was the propeller shaft damage. Maybe it was my fault for not going All Stop immediately, but shortly after impact and initial repairs, they jumped to .92 damaged.


Naturally at this point I had to suspend chasing/shelling the now-burning and frantically zig-zagging merchantman who probably couldn't believe his luck. The bulkhead gave way a little more and we started slightly going down by the stern. Buuuut the plucky engine room crew got the bulkhead sealed and the room pumped. Good news!


All told after hours of repair work dead in the water, the only lasting damage was...the two propeller shafts....which you can't seem to do any work on while patrolling. Bad news...and worse. I could only manage 3-4 knots, and that was at Full. I didn't want to risk Flank and ruining them altogether just to get stranded in the middle of the sea. But the creme de la creme is coming....


Manila just got bombed and they called off all their boats, redirecting us to Surabaya, Java. That would normally be fine...except when I'm riiiight off Luzon and in desperate need of prop shaft repairs. So...off I go tooling towards Surabaya at a few knots. A loooong way to go indeed. Pretty uneventful too...until it wasn't.


About halfway between Borneo and Singapore chugging south, don't I just have to stumble upon a pair of destroyers and a gunboat in the pitch black? I can't go very fast so turning away and running isn't an option. I dive to periscope depth and hope there aren't any leaks from the damage. I don't know if they saw me slip under or heard me on passive, but either way they saw me and started pinging with active.


To make a long, sad story short, they missed many depth charge attacks, setting them too deep, but not matter how long or far or where I turned, they kept on me. I just wasn't fast enough. When one passed right over my conning tower and his keel ripped off my periscopes and partially destroyed the deck gun, I knew I had only one option left, dive.


Now you know where this is going. 80 ft? No problem. Still getting pinged. 100? A-ok. 120, 150, 170...hull is still good...but can't lose em. My men are going nuts getting pinged. Well, screw it 200...and something gives. I immediately go flank speed dive planes up but like the damned torpedo that started all this, it was already too late by the time I noticed what was going on. All the bulkheads started to leak and we lost the boat in the dark night somewhere between Borneo and Malaya, not even a month into the war.


Which brings me to the real question: Has anyone ever had a Mark-10, NOT a Mark-14, circular run before (any mod or stock for that matter)? I HAVE seen Mark-14s do it, and I'm always edgy with them early war and keep a sharp eye out when I launch. But the 10? I thought I was good. I wasn't paying as much attention. At first I thought I messed up and had my gyro angle wrong. But then it kept going and going, and when I realized the situation it was a forgone conclusion but for dumb luck.

I have had one or two MK 10 circle runs over the years. I am not sure why MK 10 was modeled in stock and other mods to have circle run issues because I have never read about this occurring, same with duds, MK 10 did not have a dud issue, different exploders. One issue did have was in early part of war before were adjusted they were running average or four feet deeper than set.


I removed dud and circle run factors for MK 10 in my TMO update.

[Contemplative Flame]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I have had one or two MK 10 circle runs over the years. I am not sure why MK 10 was modeled in stock and other mods to have circle run issues because I have never read about this occurring, same with duds, MK 10 did not have a dud issue, different exploders. One issue did have was in early part of war before were adjusted they were running average or four feet deeper than set.


I removed dud and circle run factors for MK 10 in my TMO update.

Ah, I didn't know they ran deep too like the 14s (one of their MANY issues). Good to know it wasn't just me surprised to see this happen. Sadly with 1.4 SH4 I know I can't really run the real TMO right? RFB was one of the few overhauls that still worked for me which is why I use it.

[propbeanie]

Au contraire, mon frère! Art Anker pointed this out to us many moons ago:

[REL] Trigger Maru 1.7.6 (Updated 24Jan08)

Quoting Ducimus in that thread: "it is imperitive that it be ran on a clean installed sh4 version 1.4"

Since I cannot find it any longer on SubSim here, we'll link you to s7rikeback's link:

Trigger Maru v1.7.6

I also cannot find the ROW mod mentioned in the thread, but another thread does mention that it appears to be included in TMO v1.7.6. There is a compatible RSRDC available also, just make certain you have the correct one of those.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Contemplative Flame

Ah, I didn't know they ran deep too like the 14s (one of their MANY issues). Good to know it wasn't just me surprised to see this happen. Sadly with 1.4 SH4 I know I can't really run the real TMO right? RFB was one of the few overhauls that still worked for me which is why I use it.

Yes, not as discussed as the MK 14's issues, probably because MK 10 was not as widely used as MK 14. Also, the MK 10 "only" an four feet deeper than set on average, setting them shallow pretty much solved issue. The MK 14, even when set to minimum depth, still would run deep enough at times to cause a miss. I have implemented this into forthcoming update of TMO, a lot of shots will miss due to depth issues in early war. Then there was the premature explosions and duds.


As propbeanie pointed out, there are versions of TMO that work with 1.4, but they are quite dated, some versions were first released in 2007/2008. I recently released a update for TMO, since the creator is no longer active in the subsim community and the mod was in dire need of a facelift. I would highly suggest if at all possible finding a SH V 1.5 disk online, or even download it from STEAM(last resort) usually quite cheap so can take advantage of the excellent up to date mods and get the full experience of the sim.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

... I would highly suggest if at all possible finding a SH V 1.5 disk online, or even download it from STEAM(last resort) usually quite cheap so can take advantage of the excellent up to date mods and get the full experience of the sim...

Couldn't agree more. It is very difficult to find a disk version anymore, but the Ubisoft Store has it, which is currently $10US, but they should be having a sale here shortly, to keep up with the Steam store sale for Black Friday...

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Couldn't agree more. It is very difficult to find a disk version anymore, but the Ubisoft Store has it, which is currently $10US, but they should be having a sale here shortly, to keep up with the Steam store sale for Black Friday...

Ahoy...

Just to add a bit to the info flow here... know that Steam, does do an offering of a 3-n-1 pack, (they really should call it a 4-n-1 pack) know that when I grabbed that same pack, I was able to snag it for $21-$22 & change(roughly) at the time, which was a couple of years ago, as memory serves Me... ) that has SH3, SH4 v1.4 & v1.5, as well as SH5.



No sure what the price would be, but... given that Black Friday, is soon upon us... would venture a guess that it would likely be at a discount from the normal every day price for that pack.

Hope this info helps...



M. M.

[Contemplative Flame]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Au contraire, mon frère! Art Anker pointed this out to us many moons ago:

[REL] Trigger Maru 1.7.6 (Updated 24Jan08)

Quoting Ducimus in that thread: "it is imperitive that it be ran on a clean installed sh4 version 1.4"

Since I cannot find it any longer on SubSim here, we'll link you to s7rikeback's link:

Trigger Maru v1.7.6

I also cannot find the ROW mod mentioned in the thread, but another thread does mention that it appears to be included in TMO v1.7.6. There is a compatible RSRDC available also, just make certain you have the correct one of those.

Thank you for the info I will check this out.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Yes, not as discussed as the MK 14's issues, probably because MK 10 was not as widely used as MK 14. Also, the MK 10 "only" an four feet deeper than set on average, setting them shallow pretty much solved issue. The MK 14, even when set to minimum depth, still would run deep enough at times to cause a miss. I have implemented this into forthcoming update of TMO, a lot of shots will miss due to depth issues in early war. Then there was the premature explosions and duds.


As propbeanie pointed out, there are versions of TMO that work with 1.4, but they are quite dated, some versions were first released in 2007/2008. I recently released a update for TMO, since the creator is no longer active in the subsim community and the mod was in dire need of a facelift. I would highly suggest if at all possible finding a SH V 1.5 disk online, or even download it from STEAM(last resort) usually quite cheap so can take advantage of the excellent up to date mods and get the full experience of the sim.

Yeah I have an original SH4 disk from back in the day, I think version 1.0, so I always have to patch it myself for a clean install. I will see what I can do though.

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

Ahoy...

Just to add a bit to the info flow here... know that Steam, does do an offering of a 3-n-1 pack, (they really should call it a 4-n-1 pack) know that when I grabbed that same pack, I was able to snag it for $21-$22 & change(roughly) at the time, which was a couple of years ago, as memory serves Me... ) that has SH3, SH4 v1.4 & v1.5, as well as SH5.



No sure what the price would be, but... given that Black Friday, is soon upon us... would venture a guess that it would likely be at a discount from the normal every day price for that pack.

Hope this info helps...



M. M.

Thanks, my only issue with Steam is the DRM and how you don't really own it. Short of finding a 1.5 patch disk with the U-boat module, I don't see any other way to acquire the update. I don't need the whole base game, just the expansion pack (yes I know that's old school but it was pre-DLC so the term doesn't apply lol).


Also in general to all, how does TMO, whatever version, compare to RFB? I see that people rarely mention/play RFB anymore. I know one thing is that RFB maintains a very slow deck gun reload, for all shots. We're talking 30+ probably, maybe slightly under 30 secs with a wonderful, 4-man gun crew.

[propbeanie]

Folks used to say that RFB was a "realism" mod, and TMO was a "difficulty" mod... I found both "difficult"... lol - TMO does have a more aggressive AI, which is to counter most players having read history, and realizing that the IJN ASW was weak at best in the early to mid-war period, so Ducimus upped the ante and made the AI like it should have been in real life. RFB though, makes the S-Boat basically a death trap below 200 foot, and not able to sustain much damage before failing, even at PD. The other boats are not much better at survivability. TMO does add to the campaign files though, for more variety, while RFB does not, so for me, Stock, RFB, TMO, and then FOTRS in degree of difficulty. FOTRS v2.0 is the only one to use for v1.4 of SH4, but is in German language only, and the reason it is more difficult than TMO is due to its use of the Multi-Player interface, which seems to make the escorts like ALL are set to Elite, but it is absolutely gorgeous, though it does have a few glitches. With RFB, you have to use v1.4 or lower. They numbered their mod after the version of the game, until after v1.5, when they did a few updates and used v2.x

btw, I don't think you'll find a disk version of the U-Boat Missions Add-On anymore, unless one pops up on eBay or somewhere similar. Ubisoft doesn't have the download version anymore either, unless you contact their support people, of which it can take several weeks to receive a response from them. They would probably charge you $10 for the Add-On, even if they do have it.