Does the TDC on the Type II work right?

[XLjedi]

I am playing with the new TDC and manual target solution input only. I know there are 2 different TDCs and this question is related to the early model TDC that comes on the Type II uboats.

It seems to me that the TDC does not calculate or display the AoB correctly. I have mentioned this on the Steam forums and I don't really think anyone on there has any idea what I'm talking about.

Could be that I am remembering wrong, but I thought the TDC in SH3 should be working pretty much like the early model TDC in Uboat. I plotted my question in the image below. Would you all mind taking a look and tell me where I am going wrong in my understanding of how the early TDC is supposed to be functioning in Uboat? To me, it just seems like it is not calculating the correct AoB as you pan the scope.



I should further clarify that I am entering the 90°P observation using the dial in the TDC directly. I rather despise E-locking targets on the attack scope and entering anything via that interface because it forces me to look at and lock on to the ship. I want to point the scope at 0° (where the ship is going to be when the AoB is 90°) and let the TDC calculate the AoB for me.

Alternatively, if we DID use the horrible horrible interface (LOL) and E-lock the target for a forced AoB reading at the M4 position; we could just calculate using basic math in our heads and correctly enter it as 45°P. As the ship moves from position M4 to M1 the firing solution does NOT update correctly and you are forced to override it with the correct AoB value at each scope observation. Which seems to make no sense whatsoever.

Is this how the TDC worked in SH3? I'm second-guessing myself now.

[derstosstrupp]

The early TDC models, that is, before model S3 that we are familiar with, did not have an AOB motor, and so it did not have AOB tracking. SH3 does not get any TDC correct. It has AOB tracking, but it also doesn’t take own course changes into account like the real S3 did. So Silent Hunter has sort of a blend of both styles of TDC.

What that means is, for the early TDC model, you need to anticipate the AOB that you want to shoot at, and then allow the target to cross the wire at that point, and fire. You may notice that AOB will change ever so slightly due to parallax, let’s say if you set the AOB long before the bearing you intend to fire, and you slew the bearing around in the computer, parallax will change, which will slightly change the AOB setting. So it’s best to set the AOB you intend to fire at relatively close to the bearing you want to fire at.

Any other questions on these computers, happy to help, I helped them implement both models from original documentation and schematics. There are elements of both computers that are not historically accurate, but they work fine for gameplay reasons.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

The early TDC models, that is, before model S3 that we are familiar with, did not have an AOB motor, and so it did not have AOB tracking. SH3 does not get any TDC correct. It has AOB tracking, but it also doesn’t take own course changes into account like the real S3 did. So Silent Hunter has sort of a blend of both styles of TDC.

What that means is, for the early TDC model, you need to anticipate the AOB that you want to shoot at, and then allow the target to cross the wire at that point, and fire. You may notice that AOB will change ever so slightly due to parallax, let’s say if you set the AOB long before the bearing you intend to fire, and you slew the bearing around in the computer, parallax will change, which will slightly change the AOB setting. So it’s best to set the AOB you intend to fire at relatively close to the bearing you want to fire at.

Any other questions on these computers, happy to help, I helped them implement both models from original documentation and schematics. There are elements of both computers that are not historically accurate, but they work fine for gameplay reasons.

Very helpful, thank you.

The attack scope UI and process for E-locking on a target to get access to the stad tool, AoB, and chrono really needs to be revamped. Ideally, I would want an icon for each tool on the attack scope and open only the ones I want.

I find myself unnecessarily constrained by the attack scope interface and I have to work around it, as opposed to working with it. I don't mind assigning an officer to the TDC for icon access to the TDC direct input, but the dials don't have a snap-to for whole numbers (which can be a bit annoying).

I should be able to select an icon for the chrono and stad though without a forced E-lock. The interface leads everyone down the wrong path on the Type II. They should be, exactly as you say, formulating solutions for a future position but the interface is pushing them toward entering the wrong solution and having to update it constantly. It's just not good.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

Any other questions on these computers, happy to help, I helped them implement both models from original documentation and schematics. There are elements of both computers that are not historically accurate, but they work fine for gameplay reasons.

I appreciate your offer to help. The later model TDC doesn't seem to be working any differently from the early model TDC. For instance, I took out the U96 VIIC for a test run on the later model TDC and the toggle switch at the bottom of the TDC says enabled, but the AOB doesn't calc when I pan the scope. It basically works just like the early model TDC?

I did notice the switch on the Torpedo Fire Control boxes to select the Attack Scope for bearing input, so I have that set right.

[derstosstrupp]

Originally Posted by XLjedi

I appreciate your offer to help. The later model TDC doesn't seem to be working any differently from the early model TDC. For instance, I took out the U96 VIIC for a test run on the later model TDC and the toggle switch at the bottom of the TDC says enabled, but the AOB doesn't calc when I pan the scope. It basically works just like the early model TDC?

I did notice the switch on the Torpedo Fire Control boxes to select the Attack Scope for bearing input, so I have that set right.

You have PM, long story short, the Lagenwinkel motor bottom right is probably the culprit. You must have that turned on in order for the AOB motor to work and track AOB.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

You have PM, long story short, the Lagenwinkel motor bottom right is probably the culprit. You must have that turned on in order for the AOB motor to work and track AOB.

All I can say is wow! I almost rage quit the game over this sliver of an unmarked undocumented button. I dunno, maybe we have that turned on by default? I guess in fairness they have a mouseover tooltip, but wow.

I'm just gonna leave this here as a public service.

[derstosstrupp]

Originally Posted by XLjedi

All I can say is wow! I almost rage quit the game over this sliver of an unmarked undocumented button. I dunno, maybe we have that turned on by default? I guess in fairness they have a mouseover tooltip, but wow.

I'm just gonna leave this here as a public service.

Agreed, this stuff needs to be labeled, at one point I had suggested to them just making all the labels that are on the historical computer, so it is clear, along with the tool tips. Hopefully they end up doing that. At any rate, glad that helped.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

Agreed, this stuff needs to be labeled, at one point I had suggested to them just making all the labels that are on the historical computer, so it is clear, along with the tool tips. Hopefully they end up doing that. At any rate, glad that helped.

Appreciate you taking the time to point that out. You just saved my plans for a Das Boot mini-series career this weekend in the U-96. I have already started renaming the crew.

[derstosstrupp]

Originally Posted by XLjedi

Appreciate you taking the time to point that out. You just saved my plans for a Das Boot mini-series career this weekend in the U-96. I have already started renaming the crew.

You’re welcome! And as I mentioned on that Steam thread, watching my video that was linked, regardless of whether it was in Wolfpack or not, would be beneficial for the time being, because I explain the historical functionality that the developers here have more or less followed. I have been hesitant to make a tutorial because the nature of the beta being in flux, but maybe doing one sooner than later isn’t a bad idea given all of the confusion I am seeing on Steam.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

You’re welcome! And as I mentioned on that Steam thread, watching my video that was linked, regardless of whether it was in Wolfpack or not, would be beneficial for the time being, because I explain the historical functionality that the developers here have more or less followed. I have been hesitant to make a tutorial because the nature of the beta being in flux, but maybe doing one sooner than later isn’t a bad idea given all of the confusion I am seeing on Steam.

Yeah, no offense to your video. I saw it before and basically skimmed past due to it being 1) based on a different game "Wolfpack" and 2) it's a technical description of how the real TDC works 3) over a year old and we're all looking for guidance on this TDC that Uboat is incorporating in the "unstable beta"

I can pull-up technical details for any instrument in the world, but I don't go into any game assuming that what the dev modeled reflects anything based in reality. The dev took a pretty strange approach on pre-supposing how we should collect observation data and E-lock a target in our scope. In my mind they don't have a great track record for freedom and options in our firing solution methodology.