[Skybird]

Originally Posted by 19Herr_Rapp86

Hmmmm..... I think I'm gonna puke... This entire thread misses the point... I'm an Iraq vet. A U.S. Marine. (Those who hate, go ahead and spit, say your insults, etc. You won't break me. I promise. I'm a gruff, grumpy, tough SOB that eats petroleum jelly for breakfast and craps napalm. I'm the most Oohrah, patriotic, Ultra Right Winged conservative Jeffersonian American I know. Give me your worst, America haters...) All this argument over war and what-not. All the bad things being done. Collateral damages, etc. etc. Not a single person in this thread has mentioned something I witnessed firsthand in Iraq.. That I was part of. That I participated in. Were there WMD's in Iraq? Don't know... Don't care.. Was there oil in Iraq? Sure. Lots. But for a war for oil as the left proclaimed it, me being an infantryman on the frontline during the height of the war, never saw a single oil well, never saw trucks of barrels being sent for shipping to the Homeland, never saw any of the crap the American-hating leftist said was going on. Never had to stand guard on an oil well one. I'll tell you a little bit about what I did have to do though. We're a humanitarian nation. Yeah, hard to believe with all the law breaking anti geneva drone strikes going on. For those who didn't catch the sarcasm on that comment forgive me. I guess my aggressive don't give a crap about your whining and complaining in your face attitude got in my way. What I did in Iraq was kind of an odd job for infantry. I guarded hospitals so that medical supplies coming from America, much more advanced than what the Iraqi's had, would get to the sick, wounded, and dying, not Americans, but Iraqi citizens, unmolested. My unit helped build schools. We built like 10 new schools in my 18 months of being deployed. Didn't take oil as payment either. America covered it all. Liberals, here's where you whine about American tax dollars... that's your cue. I guarded schools so the children could get there education without fear. My unit killed/captured 120 KNOWN, not SUSPECTED terrorists, including a man that frequently visited Bin Laden himself. We trucked in food and water by the tons. Built water purification plants by the Euphrates river. Guarded farms and businesses vital to the economy of Iraq. I can't count off the top of my head the number of Iraqi citizens who came up to us to give us hugs, kiss our hands, thank us for coming to "Iraq's Rescue" as they called. Had soccer games with the local children. That was fun stuff. I love how all you see is the negatives. And how willing people are to point them out, especially if it's my America on the subject. Nobody takes the time to think about all the good we do in the world. We're hated by most and criticized and cussed by all. I just love it... All the billions in aide we give out... All the work we do to set people free. All the work we do to try, not successfully all the time, but try to make peoples lives better. How we've integrated our powerful economy into the world by sending our businesses abroad to try and boost the economies of other nations. All the good gets overlooked and it all comes down to whether or not some unmanned radio controlled aircraft bombing some poor sucker who is working with/harboring people that threaten the stability of the world is right or wrong, or legal or whatever. I also lost brothers over there to this 'asymmetrical' war or whatever you want to call it. And they weren't lost to a worthless cause as some of you would put it. Its the cause of freedom. I guess in our lives of luxury though, we've forgotten about that word. Where people are being trampled on (Saddam gassed the Kurds, tried to exterminate them, and invaded Kuwait, along with all the other crap on his rap sheet that's forgotten about) America is there. Ask most of Europe about it. Better yet, don't. Not like they remember, or care. If it weren't for us half the world would be speaking German. Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, and in Lady Liberties crosshairs right now, Iran, China, and Syria. Where tyranny runs rampant... Believe me, America always has, and will always be there. All this "undeclared war", "War on Terror was wrong" stuff makes me sick to my stomach.

It seems we do not really disagree that much, but see some thinmgs, some longterm perspectives differently. I do not want to fight with you over your post, for it does not really "trigger" me. It is okay what you say. But two things I want to remakr, even if that makes you thinking I am one of those left America-haters. You mentioned oil, and not having seen it being dsriven out of the country in bottles and barrells. Well, I do not even fall back to the obvious joke that today there are pipeleines, but I tell you this: that you see no cash money rolling on the desk when you pay by credit card, does not mean that there is no financial value changing hands. The Iraq war was about gaining control over the opil business, the adminsitration, the contract singing, the stratgeic partnering with customer. It was not about filling oil in bottles and silkently brining it out of the country. It was about gaining in fluence ion the business management, so that one is able to influence the oil flow patterns of ther world. That is how the "theft" was done - or was intended to be done, for it is obvious that something went wrong. And you are right, this is something that yiu indeed do not see when patrolling in the streets or laying at the frontline.

Second, the good thing sbeing done. Well, yes, no doubt about that. Question is - did it last? Will it last? Can it last? Or was it just a one fata morgana that disappears once the sun set? After the Taliban initially were driven out of Afghanistan, there was much reporting about the women now wearing no headscarfs and veils in Kabul'S street anymore, and schools and wells and all that. Not even two years latere, women again moved around in burkhas. News from today: a women that got raped got shot by Taliban in the streets, an execution in front of 150 men who were cheering and celebrating the event. Most schools in afghanistan today have been closed again, the fear or Taliban revenge is too high. And Iraq: the giovenrment is as corrupt as was Saddam. There are secret police and assassination squads again, almost as intense as under Saddam. There is plenty of torturing going on. The ethnic tensions and discriminations lead to much violence. Crime rate is higher than under Saddam.

This you did not mention.

So I wonder how much of what you described in imporvements is to live beyond the end of the day. Or is it for you the motto of "Even if hope lived for just one day, it nevertheless has lived"?

I'm asking you this not becasue you were or are a marine and American (? are you?), but becasue I always ask this -. also regarding the Germn soldiers sending from afghanistan the same kind of reprtts as you just gave: that so much wellmeaning good things got done, and thgat one just needs more time, and that the mission is not completed, and more good things got done this day, and... and... and... To me, that is avoiding acceptance of a mission failed, sorry. Maybe for Afghanistan that is more obvious a mission result than in Iraq. But to be honest, I rate Iraq also as a mission failed. Okay, Saddam is dead. Nice. With Saddam, Iraq was more predictable, more stable, Iran was weaker in influence, and we were better off. Tarik Aziz said after his arrest that there would come a day when Western strategists would miss Saddam. Well, I missed him already on the day when Aziz said that. He was right.

I assume for a vet having fought in said wars, having seen sacrifces by comrades and efforts being done, this must be hard to accept, and that may be the reason why so many soldiers find it difficult to see the bad longterm consequences and stay fixiated on the good subjective personal experience of theirs. But I cannot help it: to me it is a form of reality denial.

Again, no personal attack intended, no fight desired.