Quote:
Originally Posted by Codz
I know that religion can be used to commit the most brutal of crimes against humanity. It has been used to suppress science, technology, and basic human rights. Believe me, I know how horrendous religion can be when it's in a position of power. In particular Christianity and Islam. However, I am not going to hate an entire group of millions of people because of it. I will fight for their right to believe what they want, just like I'd fight to protect my right to atheism or a Christian's right to his beliefs. I draw the line when their beliefs try to trample other people's rights and impede social and scientific progress though. Secularism is the way to go in all politics.
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I noticed that although your forefathers have suffered hundreds of thousands of losses in the war against nationalsocialism and fascism which are responsible for the slaughtering of so many more, you today still want these to have the freedom to spread their ideologies, to influence people and to infest their minbds until today, calling that freedom of speech. Well, When the negative nature of something is beyond doubt and has been clearly demonstrated and provenm by history, I have a problem with that. To me it then is not an honourable goal, thnat freedom for the evil, but it is the refusal of learning from history, and dancing on the graves of one's own forefathers.
Religions are ideologies. Ideologies influence the mind, that's what they are there for. Even when aking into account that chiuldren are helpless regharding to what they get exposed to in ideological in fluence when they cannot independently think and choose themselves, I still in general hold people responsible for their choices, and I hold the cultural sphere influenced by an ideology as responsible for that. In other words, I call said ideology by its name and by its content and features. It is possible that I end with results that make me concluding that I cannot tolerate these ideologies without violating my own moral values and ethical principles - or where myself or my liberal free society cannot tolerate these ideolgies without submission and/or self-destruction (which in Islamic history shows to be the same, its denial of history and destruction of according evidence and manfestations, is monumental and one of the biggest problems - it nevertheless is a wanted design feature, for it results in totalitarian unity, control and power).
The empirical record of relgiuously motivated "misdeeds" by Islam against infidels, and accordings misdeeds by Jews or Christains again st Muslims, speaks volumnes. It ridicules every intention to seriousl compare it.
We have leanbred from the relgious tyranny we once had, and we show insight enough to demosntrate a bad conscienc eover past sins of pout forefathers. We do not do like back then anymore. But Islam did not follow that path, but acts and is motivated as if this still were the darkest medieval.
Be careful with what you tolerate. Even tolerance should know limits. Else it destroys you, the intolerant consumes you - and with you your precious tolerance as well.
You said it yourself at the end: secularism. Ther eis just one problem: the very design of Islam is absolutely and totally against secularism. The hand that holds the relgious authority is the same hand that weilds poltical power, you cannot separate the two in islam, it is impossible. Some authors call it the "monolithic" nature of Islam, they mean right this. It is not two things being separated. It is just one.